Rubbish holiday

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

I don’t know why I am posting really - just stuck in bed and feeling so miserable. Dh and I were worked so hard last year and our relationship has really suffered through the pandemic. I booked three weeks in the UK with our two children just so we could be somewhere else and reset a bit. And it’s awful. During the first week, I had some work stuff to wrap up and DH had to job interviews. Kids decided about a week into the holiday to start going to sleep at 10pm. We are now at the end of week two. Dh and I are exhausted. I have a stomach bug or food poisoning and I am stuck in bed. Dh got rejected from one job but the other one really wants him - he just had to get through a psychometric test. He tried to do it this evening while I was sick in bed. Naturally the kids played up and he got locked out of the test. He is now stomping around and shouting. The toddler is in bed with me. I would just go home (dh wants to) but it’s ds’s birthday on Wednesday and everything is organised here not at home - so we really can’t. I can’t believe the holiday has gone so wrong. We’ve had some nice-ish times but we are both so tired and have to go back to 50-60 hour working weeks. I feel like it might break us. 😢

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore, you're on a bit of a hiding to nothing here. If people don't do the job that you do they can't understand it.

Really? I haven’t found the thread like that. Lots of other people in same work or working ft.

Does it really matter if ft work that ends at same time each day is not exactly same thing

I was in a similar predicament, work wise - corporate lawyer in city firm and the work situation has been brutal for a couple of years now. There is a big shortage of corporate lawyers. My firm has several new starters arriving in September but these are NQs or second year associates and sometimes more of a hindrance than a help.

Anyway I have always loved my job - probably addicted to it, but having several children including one severely disabled meant I couldn’t continue working the same hours.

I am now a PSL working four days a week. I can take holidays, I don’t get hassled by clients at midnight and I don’t have to worry about pitching, client development, timesheets, negotiating fees or billing. It’s a decent salary too, albeit with a ceiling. Would I recommend it to you? NOPE

@MarshaBradyo, do you know what, you're right. That sounded dickish.

I think I'm projecting. My mother constantly goes on about my long hours and how it is ridiculous. And it clearly touched a nerve!

Apologies

@Aliensrus

I was a senior associate on the path to counsel until recently and was going out of my mind with the stress of it and it’s hard to see things clearly when life is like that. I hated the work so was happy to move out of client work but looking back I can see that my mistake was to bother with counsel at all when I should have been gunning for partnership as that is where the proper cash is. As a woman I think it’s easier to get fobbed of with a counsel position that has all the stress of partnership but not the same financial benefits. If you can I’d take your foot off the gas on the daily grind of client work and start networking and doing all the BD stuff you need to do for partnership. If you’re not supported then investigate other firms that will and let your firm know that is what is happening.

They always used to fob off the women in our firm with counsel positions when they deserved partner but that stopped a while ago and they seem to be promoting a lot of people to Legal Director now. It all grates a lot, as many of us were billing more as seniors than most of the junior partners.

It is getting much harder to make partner now, they are looking for at least 10 years PQE and preferably an MBA (which they weren’t willing to finance but would generously give you 45 minutes off every other Tuesday to complete!).

Don’t leave your successful job! Don’t do it!!

This all sounds so familiar! I too am a solicitor working in London. Earlier today I had a conversation with two friends, also solicitors in London, about how incompatible law (particularly city law firms) is with life, particularly for women.

First, hang in there! It will get easier. My children are older than yours, 11, 10 and 6, like you we have school fees x3 and a large mortgage but we no longer have a nanny or any childcare to pay for which is a huge burden lifted.

I did take a step back, I am in industry now working as GC. I don’t earn as much as I could but the work is generally interesting and the people lovely. I won’t lie, there are times when I am really busy however I have total flexibility, can generally do school drop offs and pick ups and attend school events.

Transactional work is simply not the place to be with a young family - unless you are willing to accept being reliant on a nanny and disrupted home life / holidays.

I really recommend considering in house, my experience has been that there is a good quality of work and far greater autonomy. I suspect it may well give you the balance you clearly need. Good luck x

Be kind to yourself.
Holidays and family life are HARD!

This is what I would do FWIW:

See if DH can retake the test. He could pass it off as WIFI issues as away from home (OR be honest and tell them he had childcare issues - childcare isn’t just your issue).

Not go away for so long next time.

Appreciate that we are all battered from the pandemic so be kind to each other.

Appreciate routines go to pot in the summer. So what if they’re up late - it’ll prepare you for teenage years.

DO NOT GIVE UP THE JOB.

Take someone away with you next time ( summer nanny? MIL?)

Rehome the dog? (Why do stressed families give themselves MORE stress with pets??)

Go to a hotel with a kids club next time, abroad.

Yes you need time with the children but you need time with your DH for relationship time and the chance to relax yourselves.

Much better to go away for 1 week to somewhere really wonderful and luxury and feel truly amazing than 3 weeks of shit slumming it in the UK.

A couple of hours childfree each day to do your own things is exactly what you need.

Also three years olds are a nightmare. Keep going. Things do get better when full time school starts.

Try not to ditch DH just yet. You're probably through the worst of the shitfest that is young children. No relationship is perfect. You must have loved him once? You just never get a chance to access that side of him - or yourself - these days probably.

Are you sure going in house isn't for you? Not all in house roles are the same. I was a private practice M&A lawyer and am now in house for a large financial institution. I find it nearly as interesting and challenging as my private practice role was (it is admittedly less varied). But it doesn't need to be quite as fulfilling, because it takes up a significantly lower proportion of my life and I have time for other things which do interest me. And oh the relief of not being constantly stressed and tired, not rushing everywhere, not feeling guilty for doing a shit job at everything all the time!

Or, if you don't want to leave, could you take your foot off the pedal a bit? When will you know about promotion? I appreciate long hours are always the nature of the beast to an extent, but some people do seem to play the game quite successfully. If you're thinking of this as a long term career then it doesn't have to be a sprint. Could you get on another secondment, just for a bit of a break?

I also would question whether a 4 day week really does help (genuine question - it might be worth it to you). Whenever I do one it makes the other 4 days so frantic trying to finish off and have a break. Would the extra 20% salary come in handier?

Also, if your DH gets a new job, how much will that help? Is he a hands on parent? If he's actively interviewing, it might be worth seeing how that changes your dynamic.

OP hang in there. It will get easier, I promise! And hard times will be forgotten ( human race would not procreate otherwise!)
It’s a difficult age for kids but it does get better ( providing you are not going for no 3). In fact you are probably just about over the worst of it.

And I wouldn’t give up the job either.

go in house already my dear!

It’s time.

Hang on in there! You have a great career and you deserve it

The kids will no doubt have had a wonderful time on their 3 week holiday

It does seem ironic that the first time you seem to have had to really think about this is when you have been ill in bed.

One big piece of advice I would give you for this holiday is slow down. Walk slower, at your DCs pace. Dont try to do anything of note. Your DCs are of an age where they take delight in the smaller things.

Your older child is of the age where they start to build lasting memories. My abiding memories of family holidays are that DF was always cross (never really knew why) and DM was tightlipped.

I don't understand why you have a dog? (I know I'm probably missing the point)

We paid an absolute fortune for a holiday with a 8 - 5 kids club when our child was 4. We all had a brilliant time, even though we could have got 3 weeks somewhere else for the same money it cost us for a week. Felt bad in advance about the long kids club, but she bloody loved it still talks about it 2 years later. They even gave us babysitting time, so we had 2 evenings out, and the day we tried to take child out of kids club she moaned about not being with her new buds.

We'll do it again as soon as covid is done.

Hang in, OP. City lawyers when they're not ill can manage work, DPs, sleep-disrupted DCs and DDogs. Illness will pass. Good luck.

Remind your DP to focus on his career, not yours and only toddlers get to tantrum and stomp around when online tests go wrong.

You need a break.

Can you not just book a massage or a Champneys? I know the latter isn't what it was, but it still tries.

Don't feel guilty. It is so much easier to love other people when you have loved yourself a bit and feel a tad guilty!

You must remember the horrid newborn times, the tiredness and emotions flying about the place.
Get through that and you can get through anything life throws at you, book a shorter holiday and then odd days here and there to attractions/activities etc. In terms of jobs, can't help you there but family comes first. I gave up my stressful career on the road for a cushty number closer to home and I get to spend more time at home. We've all got covid so been isolating for what seems months but we'll get through this and there will be brighter days ahead. Good luck!

Haven't rtft but please don't row back on your career now, you've done the hard bit and you are on the home straight. Bet your dh wouldn't. But I do hope tomorrow is a better day, and why don't you resolve to plan another weekend break or something soon to get over this horror x

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore

The expense of a nanny coming on holiday is just so high. We’re staying in a two bed rural cottage because most of our income goes on childcare and school fees - which is totally our choice. I know that!

Dh would claim that he has already cut back on his work and these job interviews are an attempt to cut back more.

Child care and school Fees are a drop in the ocean compared to what youre both earning, come on. just saying ....

Kinder hotels are great for children and for parents. You'll have to wait until we are allowed to travel but would give you all a lovely break. Highly recommend them. As for the career, no idea but little children are hard work and it definitely gets easier as they get older. Good luck.

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore

Centre Parc is so expensive though! And dh is basically a hermit - other people are his worst nightmare. Really limits our holiday options!

But agree - the premise of this holiday was pretty poor!

We have gone out every day but had to come back early today because I wasn’t well. And I’ll take the kids out tomorrow assuming that dh can do these online tests so that he had some quiet time - I had already offered to do that. No idea why he decided to do it tonight…

During a three week holiday, I have only done 1.5 hours reviewing docs and the same on a call and that was all in the first week. That’s pretty good, no?!

Dh didn’t really have any control over when the interviews happened. And he was worried that if he put them off by saying he was on annual leave, he would have lost out - which he might have done.

I think the rubbish holiday is probably symptomatic of our lives being a bit mental. That’s probably why I am feeling this miserable over it. I’ve worked sooooo hard for my job for so long but maybe it’s time to pull back.

With your lifestyle, why add a puppy to the mix?

I really struggle when people say they can’t switch off from your job… what would happen if you went somewhere off the grid? I honestly think you just have to do it. Remember it’s really really hard to fire people after 2 years service and just believe you are that valuable.

I never work overtime and have never checked emails on holiday, or weekends. I’ve also been promoted regularly and held leadership positions. I told one job offer categorically that I would not be working more than 40 hours a week (previously occupants had been working 60+) and that they should offer it to someone else if that was the expectation. I got the job. I really do think you can just say no, even in cultures where it might not seem like you can.

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore I've not RTFT but I just wanted to say that I used to be a partner at a boutique London firm and after I had DC2 I decided I just couldn't take the pressure and stress any more. I landed a role also in a Silver Circle firm as an internal consultant and it has been completely life-changing. I've been very, very, lucky but it is a 9-5 and I rarely have to do anything outside normal working hours. Roles like this do exist, you just have to hunt them down a bit or negotiate them at your current workplace (mine has been pretty good about creating such roles for people who want something a bit different and don't want to work themselves into the ground - although I have to say I'm wondering if we're possibly at the same firm...!).

Basically, I cashed in my chips in terms of the experience and the years of long hard slog that I put in in my 20s and early-mid 30s (so it's not like any of that was wasted) and now I have an infinitely more enjoyable life and have genuinely never looked back.

In terms of pay, I'm earning perhaps as much as a 6 year PQE but still a hefty salary by any normal standards, and on an hourly rates basis I suspect I'm earning more than everyone except the partners!

Feel free to PM me, I'm really quite evangelical about it all as you can probably tell!

Don’t give up the job yet!!! You have worked exceeding hard to get to this point and kept it going through 2 maternity leaves etc. But maybe put a timeframe on it to review and have a rethink on whether you want to continue or try other options, set a review date tied to promotion timescales maybe? I did this and it really helped my mindset.

I say this as someone in a very similar situation to you, same job (although I switched type of firm on having kids but all that really did was hit my salary), same age kids, promotion path, DH, crappy everything go wrong holiday…. I could have written your post a few months ago, things have improved, no end in sight as such but I am trying to be a bit firmer on some boundaries and balancing it all. Realistically there is no perfect balance in this profession, as a woman, gunning for promotion and young kids! I’m just hoping it will pass and be worth it!

Hotel next time for holiday - with a kids club!