If you are very clever, how did your parents help make that happen?

[rainbowfairylights]

Background: I have been with my DP for a couple of years now. Whilst we are both intelligent people with careers we are proud of, DP does seem to have a bit of an air of... I don't know, she's definitely more clever in the sense that she knows a lot.

There are huge differences between our childhoods - I was raised in a family of borderline neglect, didn't have any extra-curricular opportunities and went to an inner-city low ranking school. DP went to one of the best schools in the country, had a variation of extra-curricular going on from sport to music, and their family spend a lot of time doing things like general knowledge quizzes, playing board games, etc etc. I left school at 15 with a mix of grades, DP left at 18 with straight A's at the highest level possible.

I suppose I'm trying to figure out how much of a difference the things DP's parents did with her made, vs how I was raised. We are both successful now and I actually have more higher education success, but as I said, DP is definitely still the more intelligent one. If you have a similar type of intelligence to my lovely DP, can you pin it on childhood experiences, is it a luck of the draw, or more of a mix?

My sister and I were naturally good at school. Excelled at reading, tested well and found school pretty easy education wise (no so much when it came to being bullied). Natural talent means shit though. My parents never pushed DSis or I to focus on education, and definitely not higher education. My DSis did random jobs until she landed in a job where she got promotion after promotion and is now in a managerial position and in charge of a number of departments. That said, she could have had a university education and done even better professionally.

And for me? Turns out I was born to be a mum. It's the one job I have loved and found easiest (and I've worked solidly since I was 12 until I had my first in my late twenties) and I'm now a SAHM with missed opportunities that I absolutely do not regret. I also happen to have a head for facts, general knowledge, current affairs and rarely have my nose out of a book.
DH hasn't read a book since he finished school and he's in his 40's now. (That's not including baby and toddler books to the children at bedtime. He did read those). I do think there is a huge difference between us intelligence wise. Unfortunately his general knowledge is just as poor. We may not sit around and discuss politics, religion or anything else of any importance but he is a good, kind and loving man. A good provider and a good father. He was encouraged far more than I ever was but natural intelligence, a will to learn and an interest in general knowledge counts for a lot.

I've met plenty of extremely intelligent people who are unhappy, "unsuccessful" in a material sense of low to medium earners, dysfunctional in their relationships etc, despite getting very good exam results having high iqs and being good at crosswords. Reading is not everything although it is a pleasure . Sport outdoor exercise practical work, community activities might be just as likely to benefit your emotional intelligence as studying and "reading".

Please don't get hung up on "intellectual" measurements.

Cummings and Johnson are both extremely intelligent well educated people...doesn't follow you necessarily aspire to have your kids turn out with the same qualities...

"a degree of trust in your childs ability" , exactly.

Fleas very well said, and to you.

I think it’s a bit of nature and a bit of nurture. Having an inquisitive mind is possibly nature, but having the opportunities to explore things is more nurture?

I’m considered ‘clever’ - straight A student, went to one of the top universities in the world etc, but actually when things have worked out for me it’s been down to my general knowledge and ability to adapt myself to any cultural situation. That’s nothing to do with intelligence.

My parents were non-pushy (quite passive actually), neither university educated and we couldn’t afford many extra-curricular activities. But I’ve always read widely (fiction and non-fiction) and I also read articles and current affairs from a wide range of sources. I listen and I absorb things.
In short, I think an inquisitive mind is the key, and that’s just something you’re born with.

Thank you @Nettleskeins

I can only talk about my own experience but I have often been told that I sound like I have been privately educated! Not sure if this is always good or bad... I went to middling state schools (not grammar). I was also the first person in my family to go to university. At home as a child we:

• talked a lot about everything
• read a lot - not necessarily classics - for two years straight I only read Dr Who books
• listened to Radio 4
• all loved watching quizzes and taking part in quizzes

I think this gave me good all round knowledge and I did always get top marks for all the good that did me. What it didn't give me was the self-confidence that privately-educated people seem to get. I always feel like a bit of an imposter.

Neglect and trauma will also cause differences in attainment because the brain will be in a different state.

And I agree about the public library. I spent hours and hours in libraries as a child. My dad used to look after us on Saturday mornings which meant taking us to the library and leaving us there for a few hours. Happy days!

I got this from how I was raised, and I followed this formula for my own children: Let them be bored. Keep them away from electronics. Don't let them disappear into video games and TV. Talk to them, read to them, take them for walks, go camping, take them on little field trips, go to the library, go to talks, be enthusiastic, have hobbies, do crafts in the backyard. Let there be quiet and slowness in your house. Have dinner together every day. Dinner is more important than lessons. Let them see you learning new things and failing and trying so they don't feel afraid. If they feel bored, tell them you believe in them, they can figure it out. Make a trail of breadcrumbs to lead them down paths of curiosity. Bake with them. Teach them how to hammer a nail into wood. How to identify a bird. Get a book on birding and try to identify stars. Look at the world with them and see again how the world is full of magic to discover and experiments to try. Believe it yourself. Learn new things with them. Have the best time adventures with your young companions.

Well, maybe don't try to identify stars from a book on birding...

@PrincessNutella

Well, maybe don't try to identify stars from a book on birding...

hahahahahaha

I agree innate intelligence is different to being bright and knowledgeable etc

Anyway, me and my sister have both achieved a lot academically and are both intelligent. We went to state schools, and were very pushed by our mother who believed education was really important (she grew up in poverty). So much reading - we were complete reading geeks, discussions at dinner, watching the right tv, introduced to the theatre, museums and music early and encouraged to read the news papers, and lots of educational trips.

I don't agree private schools are necessary in order to give you cultural capital .

(my mum was a bit of a nightmare actually and caused us much damage, but she had the right idea re education I think).

I'm following much the same course of action with my children, but hopefully in a less pressurised snobby way and they are so far are doing very well and are also lovely interesting funny people.

I was privately educated which unquestionably helped with the confidence / polish aspects. Other things which really helped me become academically successful and which helped me to have a successful career:
Never said no to buying me books / took me to the library a lot
We ate together as a family without screens at least a couple of times a week, during which we talked a lot about politics, current affair etc, and were encouraged to share our views on the world and enter into debate.
Had the news on a lot.
Let us take whatever extracurriculars we wanted, on the basis that we had to be self motivated about them.
Loads of newspapers, books, CDs etc in the house.
Never micromanaged or forced us into any kind of learning.

No tv in the house so all I had was reading!

Very similar to Naggety upthread.
Reading
Lots of travel around the UK - museums, art galleries, places of historical significance
Extracurricular - for me it was music
Straight A student, top University (first in my family to go), postgraduate qualifications all added up to a successful career overseas.
Back in the UK this counts for very little because I don't have "connections".

I regularly refer to my DH as a sponge when it comes to knowledge, it comes naturally and easy to him even subjects I’d say he wasn’t interested in. Where as unless something actually interests me I can read and read but absolutely nothing will sink in. I fully believe it is due to our upbringings.

DH from a middle class family that put importance on a university education, did lots and lots of reading as a child, lots of extra curricular activities and traveled a lot as a child. I was severely dyslexic but ignored and told I was stupid and lazy at primary school. Things improved at high school but there was never any encouragement from my parents and school became a place to socialise rather than study. All my friends had incentives to do well in exams where my parents told me they didn’t expect much. I once mentioned university and as laughed at, that was just something only rich people could do. I don’t even think I was asked what my gcse results were. My parents arranged my first part time job when I was 13 and regularly came home to say they had a new job for me somewhere, one involved working 5 nights a week after school, on Fridays i started early so had to sneak out of school after registration on a Friday to make my job in time, my parents thought missing an entire afternoon of school was perfectly fine as I was earning. I was 18 before I read my first book.

I know I’m not stupid but I struggle academically, when I met my DH I was in a very good job earning 3 times his salary even though he had 2 degrees and I had none, but I wasn’t working in the UK so my experience and ability to do the job was more important than a degree. I’ve tried doing a degree several times but I struggle with the academic part. But I can relay intricate details of things work related, I kick ass on trivial pursuit, I love crosswords and could have been a millionaire plenty of times when answering questions on who wants to be a millionaire….

When it comes to my DCs, I read to them and encourage them to do what ever they want. Extracurricular activities have been hard over the last year or so but we play plenty of games and trivial pursuit. I also try and encourage them to do things out of their comfort zone too.

@Supersimkin2

Reading trumps nature and nurture every time.

Confidence, middle class or not, is a bit of a red herring. We all know the thick loud one at work. And the surgeon who lives on Prozac.

Open a book.

Quite.

Interestingly, those who were straight A pupils at my school and teachers' pets haven't achieved the professional success that I have achieved with my middle of the road A levels. I went to uni, am educated to post grad level (2 MSCs), no interest in doing a PHD anymore, am contented with my career and earning power. My friend who still boasts about how she was always loved by the teachers as she presented every homework to adorable perfection has her own business and doesn't turn over any money. Guess which one of us is the bigger and more overtly confident show off? not me

I think you're right to conclude that this is about cultural capital, but I don't think it's about what parents do (or, at least, not always).

My siblings and I had essentially the same upbringing but are now in very different places as far as cultural capital is concerned. I think that's largely because we went to different schools, which differed hugely in how they did (or didn't) encourage us to acquire cultural capital or provided opportunities for it.

It's an interesting question.

I'm one of 4 siblings - we all went to a big mix of schools both private and state. Parents were professionals, more books in the house than a branch of Waterstones, we played board games, mealtimes were around the table and debate was encouraged and everyone was expected to have an opinion and defend it.

But I we didn't all turn out the same - we all did pretty well academically, RG unis etc, but I'm definitely the one who can probably have a conversation on any topic under the sun and knows ridiculous numbers of totally useless facts, whereas one of my siblings would struggle outside their sphere of interest.

My DH comes from a similar family background, went to Oxbridge and probably gives me a run for my money on knowing obscure things. We have a house full of books, read constantly, and our DD knew every museum in London like the back of her hand by the time she went to school.

She's completely different - doesn't read for pleasure, but consumes film content in the way I consumed books, sees no point in knowing facts when she can just 'ask Siri', and has quite specific interests. Museums are apparently 'boring' and she dislikes debate. I admit I struggle at times having a child who regards most of my dearest hobbies as something she'd happily pay to avoid - and I have wondered where I went wrong!

I've come to the conclusion that it's a good thing to expose children to 'cultural capital', but that alone does not make someone into someone like your DP. It's a combination of personality, an innate curiosity and thirst to acquire knowledge alongside a reasonable level of intelligence as much as it is having the opportunities and resources.

I have a very close friend from a very humble background and none of the opportunities and resources who had the personality that drove him from a very young age to seek out the information that he was interested in, and as well as being well rounded on the general knowledge front, he is one of the foremost experts in his particular field.

I haven't read the whole thread (so apologies if it's already been mentioned), but OP I think you might find a famous sociological study by Annette Lareau interesting - "Invisible Inequality: Social Class and Childrearing in Black Families and White Families". She and her research team followed around different families to observe their home life and parenting, and didn't find racial but rather class differences in parenting approaches. Personally I found it fascinating.

I grew up with that typical 1970s benign neglect with parents who both grew up poor but refused to identify as working class. I loved books and would visit the library, on my own, from a very young age. It's mostly dogged determination, though I'm nowhere near as sharp as I was, these days.

I love to learn, I also am one that never reads fiction but I read facts loads

I think its just intrinsically part of who we are if we are learners or not (I have friend who have zero urge to learn, it actually amazes me their ability to NOT learn new things like it must take effort to ignore all the interesting things you see/hear/read everyday lol) but then theres different areas too.

I suck at math (not number minded) but my DS is top of his class but I was top of my class at English (dispite being dyslexic and not reading fiction) but DS is bottom of his class (no language minded) and my best friend dropped out of school young but is very vocationally talented with her hands (great cook and artist) but not at all 'academically' - we just have different strengths and I dont think any different type of parenting would change that.

What a fascinating question, and great responses!

For my two cents, the things that mattered most to me, and that I hope to recreate for my son, are:

1. My parents had high expectations of me. Not necessarily to have an impressive job or a large salary, but to be intelligent, worthwhile, and have a certain level of intellectual integrity in what I did with my life. I sort of knew deep down what would 'disappoint' them, and that wasn't necessarily getting bad grades, it was not being the best, smartest, most curious and constructive person I could be. Academic achievement was part of that but not the be all and end all.

1. They had multiple bookcases full of books on all subjects, and plenty of quality fiction. So when I was bored at home, which was a lot, I had a library of books that were way above my reading level, but I was able to have a go at my own pace and give everything a try. Encyclopedias, history, physics, classic literature... a huge range and nothing was 'above our station'.

1. They didn't hive us off into kid-oriented activities (but this was the 80s, and I think it happened a bit les then anyway) and often included us in more adult-oriented activities, tasks and conversations. So we had lots of opportunities to test our thinking and problem solving abilities.

I would probably say that the number one thing I'm grateful for in the way my parents raised me is my confidence in my own intellect. That has kept me going through all sorts of difficult situations in life and a real key to however resilient I may or may not be as a person.

Exposing kids from a young age to all kinds of influences. We didn't do kids stuff with my kids, well not often, they did the things we were interested in which means museums, opera, ballet etc. One of my DD's loves all of this the other rebelled but does know about cultural stuff