If you are very clever, how did your parents help make that happen?

[rainbowfairylights]

Background: I have been with my DP for a couple of years now. Whilst we are both intelligent people with careers we are proud of, DP does seem to have a bit of an air of... I don't know, she's definitely more clever in the sense that she knows a lot.

There are huge differences between our childhoods - I was raised in a family of borderline neglect, didn't have any extra-curricular opportunities and went to an inner-city low ranking school. DP went to one of the best schools in the country, had a variation of extra-curricular going on from sport to music, and their family spend a lot of time doing things like general knowledge quizzes, playing board games, etc etc. I left school at 15 with a mix of grades, DP left at 18 with straight A's at the highest level possible.

I suppose I'm trying to figure out how much of a difference the things DP's parents did with her made, vs how I was raised. We are both successful now and I actually have more higher education success, but as I said, DP is definitely still the more intelligent one. If you have a similar type of intelligence to my lovely DP, can you pin it on childhood experiences, is it a luck of the draw, or more of a mix?

intothewoodss I agree with you on that.

Deprived home here but my ‘cultural capital’ is pretty high.

Background - born in the 80s, school in the 90s early 2000s in a large city on free school meals

First I Went to a school where there was a high ratio kids from various backgrounds, races and countries so that certainly widens your base knowledge.

Second it was an underprivileged school so there was an absolute ton of stuff throw our way to broaden our horizons even more.

We had a dude that would bring animals into the school. Lemurs we’re the funniest but I was holding snakes and all sorts in primary school.
We had a string quartet come into school, sports stars and authors, we had funding to send us to the theatre and museums and galleries. We saw Shakespeare and the ballet. We had the chance to learn instruments for free. We had summer schools too and funded residential trips.
I loved when the nature rangers came in and took us for wild walks and pointed out all the plants and animals and insects and getting to spot kingfishers.

Also encouraged to go to the library and out school took us all to get sign up paper work we got our parents to fill in them cards were issued in school (library was next to the school)

Not bad for a working class girl in the Midlands on free school meals.

Basically, if you want to up your cultural capital it has to be accessible and the only way to do that is to fund it for the kids growing up in deprived homes.

Not all of us are going to enjoy it but hell, what a difference it would be to society if everyone had just a 10th of those experiences regardless of income 🤷🏻‍♀️

Education (or the lack of it) can only utilise the level of intelligence you are born with, IMO.

Some people appear very clever due to having had a good education and a phenomenal memory for facts, which is not necessarily the same as intelligence. Mind you, one of the cleverest people I know has no common sense whatever.

My dh is very clever.
He is very resilient and never doubts himself. He never worries.
He grew up at a time when all the extra curricular activities were scouts etc. He was in the cadets.
He actually hates reading but watches a lot of things and is incredibly knowledge about world affairs.
Being clever is not one size fits all.
You can be very very clever and have no common sense whatsoever.
My son and daughter are academically very clever.
Neither have any common sense!

Reading, reading and more reading BUT the individual child and their personality and interests plays a huge part.

I got a full scholarship to private school, good A levels, Oxford degree etc. My brother failed the exam for the same school, failed all his GCSEs, failed his degree. We had the same opportunities but he wasn’t interested in reading or academic work at all.

A good Catholic school, with teachers who wanted us to do well. We were poor in monetary terms but we were rich with our teachers and they gave us high expectations and aspirations to aim for.

I think if you are clever and have potential, you will achieve in a normal academy.
Its the opportunities that arise in the private sector that gives and advantage. Being in the right circles.

@davidrosejumper

When it comes to kids, you also have to allow for late-bloomers. My younger brother was average in school, but really came into his own when at uni. He picked super interesting off the beaten track Erasmus destinations, made the absolute most of his time at uni, and then found a great private sector job. He now is a genuinely interesting guy to talk to, and has a job doubly out-earning me. So even if the interest isn't there in the school years, it may still come.

That was me also. i resented being at school. My parents always said i would bloom at uni (dad was a teacher and has a PhD in educational psychology). that might have been self fullfilling but it ended up being true.

My eldest DC is autistic and due to a birth injury has cognitive impairment. I find that using things that interest him (such as harry Potter; soft toys; board games) as a sort of springboard to open him up to information he would not ordinarily be interested in has been amazing. So he loves Harry Potter and now has alot of knowledge about medieval England and witches. He loved the Titanic so now knows loads about ship safety etc. he adores soft toys and now is interested in manufacturing processes. he is not doing well at school, but I am absolutely sure that all of this will give him the space to find his thing.. again and again and again.

As a pp said, I know people from top uni etc but actually the clever person I know didn't go to uni, has a totally unique way of thinking about things and has been more than ££ successful off his own bat, happens to be well read, very well versed in many subjects but great sense of humour etc and very very wise. No formal education.

@SlothinSpirit

I think it's disingenuous to deny that family background and parental involvement have a big impact on success (or that most of us want our children to be successful). But, as people have already identified, there is a big difference between intelligence/confidence/cultural capital. According to studies, intelligence is highly (but not totally) heritable but it has environmental aspects as well. So you can't create an 'intelligent' child but you can encourage your child to make the most of their abilities.

Arguably, confidence and cultural capital are more important for success than raw intelligence. I know quite a few very intelligent people who have done less well (at least materially) in life then more academically average people who have more confidence and are more savvy and socially aware.

This is going to be controversial but one of the best things I think parents can do for their children is to give birth to them between Sept-Dec so they're amongst the oldest in their school year. Older children often have an embedded advantage in terms of school readiness, confidence, physical development and social skills that I think continues throughout their school careers. I haven't followed my advice with my own DC though .

And sports, a Sept to Dec bday can help greatly!

I was sent to private school, but other then that my parents very much let me get on with it. Their view was my school was pushy enough so they didn't need to do more. I did very well at school, uni and now in good job. My siblings and I were all well behaved so always did homework etc.

So I suppose I would be send to good school and hope they have a driven personality...

I do wish they had pushed me more in terms of extra-curricular. Things like instruments, I was never told to practice and gave up because I didn't really progress. My DM always had a bit of a negative view of extra-curricular stuff (in fairness she was working FT, with a husband who worked away a lot so she probably didn't have time). Although when I mention children's activities she tends to be a bit the same.

@neveradullmoment99

I think if you are clever and have potential, you will achieve in a normal academy. Its the opportunities that arise in the private sector that gives and advantage. Being in the right circles.

Not necessarily. It depends on outside influences. I was a A* pupil upon leaving primary school. I suffered horrendous bullying at state secondary school, and ended up without a single GCSE to my name upon leaving aged 16. My grades dropped year by year. None of the teachers were remotely interested. I was a well behaved pupil, so they didn't notice me. My bullies were the "in crowd", popular with teachers, sport/arty types, so the teachers ignored my complaints.

My life started again when I left that hell hole. I taught myself GCSEs, I taught myself and achieved 4 A Levels, then I became a chartered accountant (self study alongside full time job). So, I think I proved my intelligence/academic ability but only once I got out of an awful environment called school!

It wasn't a lack of potential, enthusiasm, etc. You tend not to do well at school if you're constantly verbally abused, phyiscally abused (fag end burns etc), have your books/school bag regularly stolen/set fire, etc. Even worse when the school and the teachers don't give a toss and ignore it!

I think academic intelligence can be driven by nature and nurture. Yes there will be those who are academically gifted of course, and that might be purely nature/genetically driven.

However I was academically gifted but musically, linguistically but not mathematically.
The biggest gift I have is my emotional intelligence and that’s progressed me far more than an academic mind.
I can read people and situations and am highly organized, methodical and diplomatic. This has stood me in far better stead than my academic mind.
We were pushed to do well to the best of our abilities and I was a voracious reader (and still am), but the biggest thing was the desire to know more, about anything. I often find myself lost in Wikipedia, learning about some obscure crap, and I’m incredibly adventurous about the world around me. Learning about other cultures, other people’s lives has helped me hugely in developing an emphatic mind.

My husband is very academic, very logical and is an engineer. Our children don’t necessarily show advanced academic gift but show a huge thirst for knowledge (of random shit but still…) and are artistically gifted. I answer every one of their questions or we look things up together, because I want them to understand that there are no stupid questions in life, despite how random they are.
Having a desire to understand and know about the world/space or anything around us should be encouraged at all times, as I believe it really helps to shape us emotionally.

I'm enjoying this thread. :)

I also don’t believe that the education system is the right way to teach all people. It worked in Victorian times but I have progressed far more teaching myself in a way that I understand.

You’re not stupid OP, you have the greatest capacity to learn, just as your baby will. Having a parent (or two) that give a shit is the most important.

Having a good memory has a lot to do with it.

There's nothing wrong in reading fiction. I prefer fiction and am widely read, I use factual books to gain information. Good fiction can improve your mind, style and the way you write. People study literature at university, if it was an inferior option in some way, they wouldn't.

Literature inspires drama, plays, films etc, which is marvellous and I'm sure you enjoy (it's not all Da Vinci code). It's important to take children to theatre and film (age appropriate of course), and encourage their enthusiasm.

Fiction also often reflects societal values and trends, history, science, and fine characters are drawn.

As time goes on, your self confidence will grow and none of this will matter any more.

You are you and you're great.

@neveradullmoment99

I think if you are clever and have potential, you will achieve in a normal academy. Its the opportunities that arise in the private sector that gives and advantage. Being in the right circles.

Nah. I was clever in primary, got top grades in Y6 SATs etc. By Y8, I was failing in maths because the teachers didn't bother to make an effort to explain if you didn't understand the first time. I didn't understand the concepts at all. When I was 21, I did key skill sin maths, the tutor took time to explain in a way I understood and it was like a light bulb. Private- and good state- schools have a lot more riding on exam results than bash street comp does. If they already have a shitty pass rate, why does it matter if one more kid fails?

I'm from a working class background where my parents didn't really push me academically, take me to clubs, etc.
I'm a big reader though. So any newspaper, book, magazine I could get my hands on I would read. I got a lot of cultural and general knowledge from that. This was pre Internet. My parents also inherited some old books from my grandparents - some encyclopedias, etc which they used for display but I actually read. They were out of date but just supplemented my knowledge.
Fiction books of any kind are great to give a knowledge of different cultures, social mores/ etiquette, etc.
I also picked up a lot from television. General knowledge quiz shows, I loved the nature documentaries.
As long as you are switched on your kid will have an advantage.
BTW 2 of us passed our 11plus and went into selective grammars and 2 siblings didn't and went to the local comp. So genetics can be surpassed.

I was taught how to learn

I was taught that learning is fun

I was taught that knowledge is power

I was taught that adversity in your path is a challenge not a defeat

I was taught that learning is a life long experience, it doesn’t just stop when you leave formal schooling and it happens both in small moments and informal settings as well as in classrooms

My parents, my teachers and my environment all repeated this message to me while I was growing up and I have tried to do the same with my DC.

Hmmm... I guess my childhood was relatively privileged.. in that my middle earning parents spent every penny they had on private school.. we had little beyond that... I also read voraciously. However I was not diagnosed with ADHD until adulthood, and while my intelligence was fostered it was also used against me in a fairly abusive way... I was clearly very bright and yet never performed to my parents and teachers expectations.. but because no one recognised high achieving neurodiversity in those days I was clumsy, messy, disorganised and lazy... I could NEVER have achieved what they wanted. I learnt to work damned hard but I also learned I would never be good enough, and was intrinsically a bit of a failure. I have never got past this and it has affected me my whole life. Yes I am 'successful' and 'intelligent' but the cost was too high... let your children be themselves..encourage them support them but please don't try and make them be something they are not.

I think some kids are just naturally gifted at some stuff. My parents were crap, never read me a bedtime story, never played games with me or did homework or anything like that. By year 1 I had the highest reading age in the entire school, for straight A’s in school abs graduated with a 1st in my degree and that was all without putting full effort in. I just naturally was very curious and learnt to read very early and was good at it.

Both my parents left school at 14 to work in factories and we lived in council housing in a grimy town. However, I passed for grammar school and loved it and thrived. My parents couldn't help at all with the learning and we certainly never went anywhere for educational purposes other than to the countryside but my dad did instil in me how important education and working hard was and that has stuck with me all my life.

I would say I am quite intelligent in that I'm a good pub quizzer, have a degree and am always interested in learning new things and I'm almost 70 now. None of my ancestors from previous generations had achieved qualifications or owned a house but no one could ever predict what would have happened if I'd gone to the local comp. I do think a good education and moral compass from home has put me where I am today though.

I wouldn't describe myself as "very clever" but I have a PhD and pretty good general knowledge (I could make a decent fist of Only Connect if I had a team). I know a lot of people with PhDs who I wouldn't trust to cross the road by themselves and who probably wouldn't know either the composer of the Four Seasons or the winners of the 1974 FA Cup, so the definition of "clever" is tricky.

I went to a borderline comprehensive that took pupils from two very different areas. My dad left school at 14 and my mum at 15. Neither had any qualifications. They struggled to understand what we did at school. However, my dad was good at basic maths (arithmetic, algebra, trigonometry) because of his job and DIY.

There were two significant things my parents did. First, there were always books in the house. Secondly, they took me to the public library every Thursday evening until I was old enough to go by myself. I learned much, much more in the library - and from books I took home from the library - than I did at school.

I think encouragement, opportunity and resources are all hugely important, but I think it's also important to sit lightly to it all. It's very easy for intelligent kids to end up subject to huge pressure from teachers and parents.

My exH and I are an interesting case study, though of course it's all anecdotal. We were both very bright kids and this was evident early on. My parents became extremely preoccupied with my academic performance and "realising my potential", diverting every available bit of money and resources into getting me to private school, and generally placing high importance on my performing as well as possible in those subjects where I already showed natural ability. ExH on the other hand was given all the encouragement he needed to pursue his interests, his home life was also full of books and music and games, but he was placed in the local (decent) state school and more or less allowed to develop at his own pace. His parents were pretty confident he'd succeed if he was meant to do so.

There are undoubtedly other factors at play, but I don't think it's accidental that he's done far, far better in his chosen career. He's always been able to make decisions, take action, pursue leadership roles and submit work that's "good enough" rather than perfect. I'm a permanently anxious know-it-all who suffers crippling perfectionism and completely bombs in exam conditions, to the extent that I consistently underperform when it matters. I've missed out over and over again on funding and opportunities for which I was more than qualified, and I've disappointed pretty much everyone who's taught me because the marks I actually get never live up to the mythical "potential" I show in tutorials and supervised work. I'm certain that a lot of this comes from my own demons, and it's improved hugely with time and therapy, but I think a degree of trust in a child's ability can be very important in building that confidence they'll need to do well in life.