If you are very clever, how did your parents help make that happen?

[rainbowfairylights]

Background: I have been with my DP for a couple of years now. Whilst we are both intelligent people with careers we are proud of, DP does seem to have a bit of an air of... I don't know, she's definitely more clever in the sense that she knows a lot.

There are huge differences between our childhoods - I was raised in a family of borderline neglect, didn't have any extra-curricular opportunities and went to an inner-city low ranking school. DP went to one of the best schools in the country, had a variation of extra-curricular going on from sport to music, and their family spend a lot of time doing things like general knowledge quizzes, playing board games, etc etc. I left school at 15 with a mix of grades, DP left at 18 with straight A's at the highest level possible.

I suppose I'm trying to figure out how much of a difference the things DP's parents did with her made, vs how I was raised. We are both successful now and I actually have more higher education success, but as I said, DP is definitely still the more intelligent one. If you have a similar type of intelligence to my lovely DP, can you pin it on childhood experiences, is it a luck of the draw, or more of a mix?

Reading. My parents read to me. They were adamant that they never "taught" me to read, but I was reading simple books at 3 and progressed to Paddington books before I started school. School put me up a year, but I wasn't allowed to go to primary school a year early, because I have an August birthday.

My granny bought me a 20-volume set of encyclopedias for my 6th birthday. Thereafter, my incessant questioning was dealt with by telling me to "go away and look it up". So I did, and I often used to just sit and read stuff in them.

I did very well in my 11+ and got a scholarship to an independent grammar school, but I would only make an effort in the subjects I was interested in.

I'm a mine of useless information, but utterly hopeless at anything practical apart from cooking and gardening. And I can argue the hind leg off a donkey.

There's more to life than just being "clever"!

May I reiterate the call for reading to and with your child. Find time for it until they reach an age where they ask you to stop.

The other thing that I think helped our children to develop is telling them stories and building on the stories together. This helps to develop so many attributes - curiosity, problem solving, language choices, empathy and many more. "What would you do if a giant wanted to eat you? What does Jack think about the giant's harp?"

@rainbowfairylights

Thanks for the interesting responses everyone. This is quite eye-opening! As I mentioned up-thread I did read a lot but not because I was encouraged to and I never read non-fiction.

I guess the main reason why I'm asking is because I want our children to have a similar thirst for knowledge as DP, and as I'm the one who will be carrying (we're lesbians), if me not being as clever is down to genetics then I want to make sure I'm combatting that with nurturing knowledge and giving them the best opportunities possible. Sounds silly I know!

You both sound amazing & you're children will be as you care so much already. Ask away that's what mumsnet is for, also think ahead to schooling & go for the very best. Good luck to you both, I also find the nature vs nurture, state vs private so interesting... There's lots of ways to bridge the gap between sectors, it's been discussed loads on here but the one thing most agree on is the cultural capital..

@EileenGC yes definitely - I think it really varies with the child - and the family. There are definitely some odd people out there who are very invested in marketing particular kinds of educational advice to parents. DP’s mum went the whole educational psychologist and testing route with him, but had very little idea what to do with the information, and kept repeatedly taking him out of schools and putting him into others and weird programs for gifted children, and it was very damaging to him.

If you have a really clever child, I’m not sure there is a perfect solution - but it can be that being a bit bored and unfulfilled in a mainstream school (as I was), is far better than getting into the world of high IQ hothousing (which it sounds like you escaped too, to be fair). DP was encouraged to invest all his self-esteem into his academic ability, and though he is extremely intelligent, he has long-lasting emotional problems from it.

My DB knows far more than I do because I read fiction and he always has his head stuck in non-fiction books. He's also academically cleverer anyway

I picked up a lot of general knowledge, slum dog millionaire style from reading fiction! For instance, reading historical children fiction is an excellent introduction to history and geography. (plus, I once got a point in a pub quiz for knowing what an ingot was from the famous five...)

I have a very high IQ but poor education.
My parents didn't do anything wrong - I was unmotivated to succeed academically.

@Lemonmelonsun

Kazzy that's interesting! He's obviously found his way, other parents wouldn't have given him that freedom and he may be struggling now.

We gave him "freedom" because he always pulled it out of the bag when it came to school work, end of year exams, etc. It wouldn't have been our choice for him to spend hours every day online, and if there'd been signs of it affecting his school work, then we'd have stepped in. But, it worked for him.

It's opened my eyes to the benefits of the internet, gaming, apps, etc. As I think someone mentioned earlier, it's not the medium, it's the content. If someone is on their phone all day playing a game, just shooting at birds, then there's no educational content and that's not good, it's just killing time. But if they're playing something like Minecraft, the learning potential is enormous, as is the soft skills, such as perseverance etc. DS made some amazing structures in Minecraft that took days to plan and build - he soon got fed up of hitting virtual animals with a sword.

At the moment (as a 19 year old) he's now obsessed with Formula 1 - not just watching the real stuff, but playing it endlessly on the xbox, and watching re-runs of previous F1 races going back decades. Again, he's soaking up facts, learning about the mechanics of it all, learning the personalities over the years, the history of motor racing, etc.

The sheer number of times, we'll be watching TV quizzes etc., and he can answer the most obscure questions, not because he's read books about them, it's because he's watched Youtube or Prime videos where it's been mentioned or something he's learned from a computer game (such as rare minerals used in Minecraft!).

@randomlyLostInWales

I have good general knowledge - gained from DDad watching all the news bullteins, having Radio 4 in the background. We also watched a lot of TV documentaries rather than game shows and reality TV shit - it was more Horizon and Tomorrorws world.

I also read a lt of fiction - historical fiction from a good author led to me look things up as did sci fic . I seem good at making links something DD1 has - though she's not a reader she makes links between different sources of information - her teachers often comment on it.

DH and I both had parents who did days out at museums, castles, houses ect as well as occaional zoo and theme parks.

I think there can be some sobbery at some mediums - non fiction, TV or you tube when actaully it's much more content and quaility of content.

It's not always been easy to provide all the opportunites I'd have wished for our children - I think one of the hard things about covid has been some of the hard won and fought for opportunites they had gone now looking like for good.

We try and be supportive we tend towards knowlege based you tube and TV days out are simialr to our own growing up.

From what I've observed private schools are often good at building confidence - sports and drama are also said to do the same but I think that depends on the child being interested in them.

i think this is right.....I think folk get hung up on "books" when we should be thinking more about information intake analysis and processing and how people learn...and I say that as a voaracious reader and reading based learner. My books are mostly on kindle but even if you include kindle as "books" and many people don't, the information in them can quickly become outdated. I do agree that internet based learning requires a much higher level of critical thinking and I think that this is something that can be taught and fostered from an early age. I also think that intelligence is worth nothing without life skills.

I don’t know if someone had said this already but, on balance, you sound more successful and smart to me than your DP because your say you have had more educational success and are both successful and established in your careers.
You DP had a great start, you didn’t. You both got there in the end, which shows you probably were smarter, and worked harder.

Lots and lots of books!
Cultural trips but made inspiring though story telling, not just dragging around museums
Dinner together as a family every day. Discussing ideas, politics, culture - developing critical thinking, accepting different view points etc
Radio 4 always on, occasionally radio 3 or classic fm
Visiting theatre, opera etc so it was normal
Discussion on things not covered in school like philosophy but in a relevant way.
Travel
Following our interests, artists etc visiting e.g the Picasso museum in Barcelona
Table manners!

Don’t do down fiction! The smartest people I know in an ‘intellectual’ sense (ie can hold their own in conversation, are interesting to talk to and engaged with the word) studied classics or history or Eng lit. There is a huge amount to be said for the skills in critical analysis and reflection that are developed by studying the humanities.

I was the first in my family to go to uni and went all the way, as it were - I got a phd and I’m an academic. I put it down to:

• good school where it was ok to be clever and being part of a group of friends who were all aspirational and hard working and supportive. Most of us ended up at Oxbridge (not that that’s the be all and end all, of course)
• my parents splitting up when I was 11 and me retreating into work and my own interests as a source of comfort.
• my parents weren’t in any way academic, but my dad had an interesting job and we were exposed to lots of culture
• my mum nurturing my interests as a teen.
• my non-academic, social-life-loving older sister being a total bitch to me when we were kids, so me wanting to carve a different path. Essentially being academic was a form of rebellion for me. I don’t recommend this though. (And for the record me and DSis are really close now!).

My really clever friends had families where they talked a lot about culture and current affairs over dinner and whatnot. My family never did that, so I never feel I can quite hold my own in terms of witty repartee.

@irresistibleoverwhelm it can indeed be very damaging and I’m sorry your DP went through that as a child. I remember my psychologist telling us how very many capable children end up not putting their abilities to use because of how pushed they are. They simply want the opposite, for others to leave them alone. Which is true in all aspects of life I think…

Never thought I’d say it, but thankfully my parents didn’t have the money or time to put me in ‘gifted camp’ - the number one suggestion from psychologists in my home country back in the day. Having met people who as kids only socialised with those that had similar abilities or a similar background, I can now appreciate my parents’ efforts to give me a normal life and not become fixated on doing something ‘special’ simply because they had a ‘special’ kid. I learnt how to live and survive in a normal society with a variety of people around.

It’s very weird because I hate putting labels or a name to certain conditions or abilities, but was personally so relieved to find out what mine was. I guess it’s more important to nurture that ability whilst maintaining a normal life, than trying to go all out which can be damaging to the child.

Different kids are different. Some kids might not like reading as much or be more interested in different types of stuff. The key is being able to try a small amount of different things in small doses, even if they don’t like them or have aptitude for them. Like going to an art gallery for a short time - even if they would rather play in the park. Or trying a bit of tennis even if they are not very co-ordinated. Doing stuff even if you’re not good at it gives you an insight into how they work, gives you confidence that you can improve with practice and allows you to blab a bit about it in casual conversation!

I mean of course things have to be a balance and just doing cultural stuff all the time gets boring, but you sound like you’re sensible and will take your kids’ needs into account.

I was and am clever. My DF encouraged me at school but I wanted to do well. But I did not have any extra curricular activities because my DM refused to work and there wasn't any money for them.

I feel resentful that it would have been easier for me to achieve earlier had she worked even part time. But then when she did have money she never gave me any.

As others have said before, this in economics is called cultural capital. Instead of going on beach holidays on a kid we went to national trust places and the like, I still enjoy doing it now.

The rest of the world thinks we are mad starting formal subjects at school so early.
Tests about intelligence or problem solving of any kind in mature adults never correlate to success at reading early.
If I am wrong please post details.

Even though I went to a northern bog-standard comprehensive I had one or two stand-out inspirational teachers who took me under their wing and encouraged me - particularly in areas like English and Music.
I also went to a church youth club (despite my parents not being religious) and most of the families/kids there went to the local high-achieving independent school. Their influence was an important contrast to some of my school friends, and when they started talking about going to university, I started thinking about it too.

'hanging out with the right crowd' can be done even if you don't send your kids to private school - look for the tennis and rugby club, the drama groups, scouts/ guides, music groups etc.

Reading, reading, reading and reading. The more I learn about children, the more I'm convinced that reading widely and enjoying reading is a huge key to their success, academically, socially, and more. It helps their vocabulary, their understanding of the world and people, it expands their knowledge and improves their literacy. I don't just mean literary classics, I mean any and all books they can and want to read.

I agree that reading is the key. My parents did spend a lot of time talking to me as well, especially my Dad, we always talked about what was going on in the news, I vividly remember taking about the Watergate affair with him and I would have been about 6 at the time. Mum took me to the local theatre, exhibitions , she was very into the ballet as well. We did a lot of visiting castles and going to exhibitions etc.

Both left school at 16 but went on to get professional qualifications and were keen for us to do better, I was the first to go to University on both sides of the family , but I also had a private education as well.

@GammyLeg

I don’t think it’s an education thing. Some of the smartest and most engaging people I know skipped university.

I think it’s down to fostering a sense of curiosity from a young age; having a supportive parent, and lots of reading.

I would say this as well.

And also experiences. My parents were both crazy about travel. None of it was terribly adevnturous, per se, but going to places every year gave me a love for new things, cultures, places and triggered a love for languages; history and all that sort. One thing i want to give my DCs is loads of experiences and exposure to things, I fall down a bit with that though. (Bloody Covid and finaces!)

I'm a genius. No, really. Its been tested (boy, has it). Bottom of the range but still genius level IQ. My parents filled the house with books, I had music lessons on multiple instruments, all kinds of extra curriculars, took me to musuems, approprately 'cultured' holidays, supported my Oxbridge application, etc etc.

Absolutely none of it made me happy, or prevented me from having to be institutionalized with an eating disorder as a teenager.

You see, I'm autistic. Very. Because I'm a woman, it doesn't present in the way people expect it to, but it has very real effects on my life and happiness. I can't drive a car because I have object blindness (I visually process objects in pieces rather than as a scene). I'm absolutely grateful for my parents' enthusiastic support of my intelligence and acknowledge I wouldn't have the nice academic career I have today without it. That's not in question. But I would trade so much for better understanding and empathy of my neurological differences. My life to date has not been particularly happy. I don't make a fortune. I make enough, and I do enjoy my work, for which I'm grateful. But don't get too caught up on intelligence, or get your ideas too fixed about how best to assist your children in life. Get to know them a bit first. Intelligence isn't a predictor of happiness, success or even earning power.

When it comes to kids, you also have to allow for late-bloomers. My younger brother was average in school, but really came into his own when at uni. He picked super interesting off the beaten track Erasmus destinations, made the absolute most of his time at uni, and then found a great private sector job. He now is a genuinely interesting guy to talk to, and has a job doubly out-earning me. So even if the interest isn't there in the school years, it may still come.

@EileenGC

When people say they’ve got a high IQ, I always wonder how they know……

I had the tests done privately when I was little, then on the psychologist's recommendation, my school re-did them every 4 years or so. After observing the upwards trajectory over several years, they predicted what age I would plateau and what my 'adult' IQ would be approximately.

I'm talking 2-day long, 8h sessions each day, tests. Not the quick cheap ones you can do online or buy for £30 off a website.

Just like autistic children, having an official 'diagnosis' and psych ed/ expert pedagogical psych support, helped me understand why I was different to other children and how to manage those differences.

I took a supervised MENSA test to determine my IQ, but I never disclose my IQ as I don't really think it's a signifier of much other than being very good at problem solving and retaining information. It didn't take into account my absolute uselessness at completing everyday tasks and my crushing social anxiety. I didn't take up my membership offer because I was a teenager and absolutely mortified. Adult me is very glad I didn't, it's not a club I am interested in being a part of.

I have been skimming around on MN generally and it seems to me that the BEST most important thing that parents can teach their kids is personal confidence....that they are entitled to be happy in relationships and how to recognise when they are being guilted/manipulated/used and how to stop it, whether its at work or in their personal lives. I reckon it would take 50% of the posts off MN at a stroke!