DD wants to move in with her Dad. Very sad.

[Worried234]

Hi.

My DD is 12 and splits her time 50/50 with me and XH. We have tow other children who live with me full time, and go to XH at the weekends. The 50/50 was DDs choice and we started it in October.
Last night XH contacted me to say that DD wants to live with him full time.
I really don't want her to
I'm heartbroken. She is 12.
Has anyone any suggestions? I'd never drag it through court.
Her brothers are 15 and 8.
All children are XHs.

My DD did this at Easter. Bigger house there, consoles, no housework, no responsibility, can stay inside all the time, no one making her exercise etc. All fine as dad was on furlough. When he went back to work she was doing 50/50. Over the holidays she’s back with me full time. It broke my heart at the time. But looking back it gave me and her sister a well deserved break. It’s horrible and hard but you have to let her go. Huge hugs. I’ve been where you are and it’s horrific.

OP, what are your honest reasons for not wanting her to go? You will miss her obviously but what are the other reasons?

He reckons let her stay for the summer hols and then reasses.

I think this is a good idea. Are you going to have set days for when she comes and stays yours?
As PPs have said it gives her a way out if it’s only temporary.

@Viviennemary

I dont think a child of twelve should be allowed to call the shots. Ive seen these children setting one parent against the other flitting between houses. Not saying this is what's happening here. But on the other hand I could see if she wants just one house. It must be horrifically disruptive to do this 50/50 arrangement. No permanent home.

agin, legally she has a right to have her views heard and taken into account. Assuming the father and his partner are happy to have her then how would you stop her?

Another one here thinking you should let her go, she may realise after a couple of weeks that living with Dad full time isn’t what she wants.
There are some very manipulative and controlling mothers on this thread.

My friend's wife's DS, then her DD, each moved in with her ex as they started secondary. He encouraged them to choose the school near him as first choice and told them horrific tales of bullying and gang activity at the school near their mum's house.

She was devastated, but managed to swallow it for the children's sakes, and they flipped the residency from 5/2 with her to 5/2 with him and his partner.

The DD's situation was complicated by the fact that the ex had had an affair and left when the mum was in early pregnancy. He demanded the baby be aborted and refused to pay maintenance or acknowledge her existence until she was three. It was his son who broke through that by constantly asking why his sister didn't come with him to stay with Daddy like he did?

Of course my friend's wife couldn't say anything of that to the daughter who still (30 years later) knows nothing of her father's rejection of her in early life.

Anyway, it was devastating, and I do feel for you, but they coparented successfully and by 16/17, the kids came and went fluidly between their two homes. Both are close to both parents (and their respectiive partners and younger half siblings on both sides) now.

@Newjobcrap

I’m sorry is a 12 year old really mature enough to make such decisions? I don’t think so.

The courts usually think so. The child’s wishes are what usually determines the decision at 12 or 13.

Hard though it is, I’d be inclined to let her go, while making it absolutely clear she can change her mind whenever she likes and can spend as much time with you as she chooses. You must be very upset, OP. 💐

Make sure you get to talk to her one to one without her DF present. You need to be sure what she genuinely wants, not what she may have been coached to say.

You'll be able to tell. Make sure she knows there is always space and a welcome for her at home.

@Ozanj

I agree with an OP and tell her she’s stuck with you until she’s 18. A 12 yo should not be encouraged to change formal custody arrangements like this. Get to the root of the problem and try to fix it - if she clashes with her older brother then try to understand why and mitigate it otherwise all you will be doing is teaching her to run from her problems.

Maybe there is no root cause. Maybe she enjoys her dad's company more than her mums.

It might hurt OP but that will pass.

This is a very emotional situation for both DD and you. She will be worrying about upsetting you and damaging her relationship with you. You will be worried about her and afraid that the move will impact on your relationship.

Just be careful in your discussions not to say something you can't unsay. Make sure she understands what ever happens you will always love her and will ensure that plans are put in place for you to have time together.

It's hard, but at that age a court is unlikely to go against the child's wish unless there is parent alienation going on, which it doesn't appear to be the case here.

Let her try it for a while. Don't make it a big thing that can't be undone. Be flexible so she doesn't need to entrench her views.

I know it's really, really hard as it always is if your beloved child is not under your own roof.

So sorry you are going through this

@toocold54 Because kids can make silly choices for silly reasons, and come to regret it later. Adults have more life experience and a longer perspective - do you believe you could think through all the implications of a decision at age 12? We have all sorts of laws like age of consent, legal drinking age and so on for precisely these reasons.

Unless there's a compelling reason otherwise, I think kids should be looked after by both parents - children in non-divorced families don't get to choose after all. Otherwise they'll gravitate to the parent that makes their life easiest, which may not do them much good in the longer run, and especially during the teenage years.

Op this happened to me with 5 of my 6 children. XH waited until they were 12/13 until he whisked them away- but he had been priming them for quite some time beforehand. It is likely that your ex has done the same thing and will do it again. It was heartbreaking each time it happened, absolutely gutting , but the only thing you can do is to support the decision and let them go.

Is she feeling jealous of Ex's stepson. Do they want a live in friend for the 10 year old? Want to have one each of their biological children in their home? Does EX want to get their maintenance to you reduced and acquire any benefit (CB/CTC) you get for DD and was she the only child he could persuade? Does your DD feel her dad "needs her more" than you and she wants to please him?

[quote RadandMad]@toocold54 Because kids can make silly choices for silly reasons, and come to regret it later. Adults have more life experience and a longer perspective - do you believe you could think through all the implications of a decision at age 12? We have all sorts of laws like age of consent, legal drinking age and so on for precisely these reasons.

Unless there's a compelling reason otherwise, I think kids should be looked after by both parents - children in non-divorced families don't get to choose after all. Otherwise they'll gravitate to the parent that makes their life easiest, which may not do them much good in the longer run, and especially during the teenage years.[/quote]
In fairness though, this doesn't have to be a permanent decision and OP only lives 10 mins away from where her DD will be living.

Personally, I'd look at changing the 50/50 but still having set days she needs to be at her mum's so their relationship and and her relationship with her brothers don't suffer. Eg if it's switching every couple of days then maybe look at doing one week with mum, one week with dad, or if it already is that then do the opposite and switch every couple of days.

Or alternatively OP could of course say no (and ex would need to get on board with this too), but there is a risk that her DD may be annoyed and resent her for it.

I think it would be nice of OP to say yes but equally I think she is within her rights to say no until DD is a bit older. I know that many NRP dads would not say yes to drastically cutting time with their children in this way because it would be detrimental to their relationship. Obviously it is expected at 15/16 onwards but 12 is still pretty young and I'd guess she still spends most of her time at home.

I'd probably focus on changing up the 50/50 - it may be that DD just would prefer to spend one full week somewhere before switching homes, or the opposite.

Well you don't really have much choice op

It's her life and her decision

Support her, let her know you are there. She will come back when/if she wants. Not much else you can do

Courts would support the move in the absence of welfare issues

Why are some people making Dad out to be the bad guy with ulterior motives??

Well you need to get to the bottom of why it is she wants to live there full time rather than a 50/50 split and take it from there

The 50/50 was a month with me, then a month wirh him, and so on...

@Gunpowder

I think if this was my DD and in general The relationship was good/neutral, I would say (in a matter of fact/cheerful way: ‘sorry darling. Obviously we both want you to live with us but I’m afraid you are stuck with me for at least half the time until you are 18, and really I want you even more than 50 % of the time. I know it’s annoying but I’d just miss you too much’

I think it’s really important she knows you love her, maybe the asking to be with her dad 50% of the time was a test, maybe she thinks you love her brothers more so she’s throwing all her eggs in with her Dad? Maybe she’s being loyal to him and is worried he’s lonely?

I think this is good advice.

I'm a retired counsellor and psychotherapist and worked extensively with teenagers and young adults. IME it's incredibly damaging for young people to have the power to be able to switch living arrangements in that way. It gives them a level of autonomy and control out of proportion to their age that can damage them. . It can put doubts in their mind that about who actually really wants them and where they belong.

Of course there is always the chance that she has a good reason for wanting to switch so she also needs to feel listened to. It's a real dilemma for parents.

I'd compromise. Sit down with her, cuddle her and say what @Gunpowder has suggested. See how she responds. If she is still adamant then maybe suggest trialling 5 nights a week at Dads in the holiday and see how that goes. Make it clear that this is a trial run and you will miss her very much. Then see how it goes. Good luck. It's a horrible situation to be in.

Last year just as Covid lockdown hit the country in March my then 13 year old daughter moved into her dads with her step mum and younger half brother. My son, her brother remained at mine. We had fallen out spectacuarly and it was painful but it was her wishs to go and frankly it was better for the harmony of the house at the time. To cut a long story short she moved back after a few months (though still splits her time at her dads as does her brother) she came home with a greater appreciation of everything I did for her and was like a chaged child it wasn't quite as good at her dads as she thoyght it was! I've never believed in parents controlling where kids want to be as they'll resent it. Let her go, tell her she'll always have a home with you and that you love her, but to do whatever makes her happy. No move has to be permanant, the only permanacy is generally with adults arguing over the maintenance fees etc. The more you tell her no the more she'll want to go. My daughter saw that her dad didn't make all the sacrafices that I did and general life admin such as dentists, doctors opticians, parents evenings etc. I didnt stop these things because she'd moved out, why would I'm still her mum.

I think you need to be careful she doesn’t keep changing her mind on this & start a sort of ‘competition’ for her attention between you & ExDP. These decisions are complex and affect everyone in both households, so she can’t constantly change what she’s doing.

I’d be concerned of the impact on her sibling relationships as well, as it breaks up the sibling group.

op

Please ignore the people saying not to let this happen. At age 12 a judge would allow her to choose so you're doing the right thing talking to her

Lots of hugs - I can only imagine how heartbreaking this is l.

Unless there's a compelling reason otherwise, I think kids should be looked after by both parents

I completely agree but she will still see her mum but her ‘base’ will be at her dads.

If her dad lived far away or she didn’t see him very often I’d say she could be making a mistake but it’s only 10mins away and she’s him 50% of the time.

We don't own our dc and it is hard letting them go, but she will only be 10 minutes away, at least it's not the other end of the country.
To the pp saying don't let her go, clinging on may have an adverse effect and cause resentment from dd.
I think keep communication open with dd and your ex as well as your door ajar for her. The novelty could well wear off and she'll be back.
Grass is always greener.

In recent years 50/50 has been hailed as the gold standard for separated parents, but it's not always great for the children. How many of the adults here would like splitting their time between two homes, especially when others live there full time so you never feel quite like a core part of the family in either?

With the houses so close, it doesn't sound like you even need a strict schedule. If she wants to stay with you one night she can just walk over. She probably just wants to feel like she has one proper home.