Is this normal ? Friend told me something and I’m wondering how common this is ?

[namechangedForthus]

Was chatting to a friend today and she mentioned something about it being ‘one of those days’ when I said I was just going to get a few bits from the shop.
After chatting a bit more it turns out that ‘one of those days’ is what she has 3-4 days each WEEK where they have ZERO in their account ?

She shrugged this off as ‘normal’ and ‘real life’ but I was quite shocked.
What if an emergency arises or an unexpected bill? She said they have no savings but that the rent and bills are paid and she always has food staples in and a freezer full so it’s just how it is. She laughed that I was shocked! I said I was more than happy to pick up any bits she needed

Is this really reality for people I would be so worried each week if it was me because of unexpected costs but she seemed resigned to this being how it will always be

I’m far from poor but having been there I hate waste. I shop to a food plan and budget and generally budget well. There are ways of helping if you want to: donate to food banks, charity shops, etc. If you have kids, give their old uniform to school if they have a clothes bank, little things like sharing your Netflix or Disney with a friend who might not have the means, offer things up on your parent groups - I used to routinely take a kid to bday parties because mum didn’t drive (he’d often not bring a present so I normally had something spare he could bring as a gift and I also made sure he was fed and often took something home).
Lots of free cycle groups on Facebook etc.

Yes this is the norm for a big proportion of people. I'm one of them, I have a credit card I can use for emergencies but it can take a long time to pay back. I know of people who are far worse off and are claiming food parcels and help towards bills as well as UC as they have lost their jobs due to the pandemic. I count myself lucky.

Unfortunately this is too many people’s experience of everyday life, including my own at points.
Due to austerity measures, zero hour contracts, and various other failings of the UK government, poverty is increasing. Hence the rise of food banks and community food providers. It’s shocking that our government thinks it’s okay to measure their success against the number of food banks opening rather than creating legislation that safeguards against income poverty.
We are one of the richest nations in the world, yet we have the highest rate of child poverty in the whole of the EU.
Vote wisely people

I think this says a lot about modern day “poverty”.A window cleaner - hardly a necessity.
There's no need for that if someone felt shit enough to cry and try to avoid someone because of their monetary situation then it was tough for them at that particular time.

It's very common. I haven't got a penny until Monday. Hardly any food either but I only have myself to worry about. It's horrible and depressing.

@JustAnotherPoster00

People don't generally discuss their personal finances out of personal pride and also it seems to be a bit of a British thing it's considered rude.

Just another rule weve been conditioned to put on ourselves that benefits no one but the employers and the aristocratic rich

There is stimga.

We were sudenly feckless rather than extremely unlucky - injury umemployment didn't matter. We covered our bills, fed and clothed our kids and coped with all the unexpected and I think unforsseable events by doing without and being very careful - still got judgement.

I know some people have odd or wrong prioties but I rememeber being told off for paying for toddler groups.

From my veiw point I took multiple young children somewhere warm when in winter our house often wasn't with food on offer with new things to play and in an envriornment they could learn to interact with others while I found support and a lot of local knowlegde including free and cheap events and even got second hand equipment and clothes from others. I used to hunt and save small change and then have various piles of money on side for things I knew were coming up when money would be tight. It was only a pound or two at most but I was still told it fittering money away.

When things imporved we had a big luxury we save up for all year a cheap UK holiday and people were again extremely judegmental - usually people eating out each week or going on mutiple hoildays a year.

Mumsnet is full of extremes.
There have been many threads on here from posters who earn over 6 figures, and express disbelief that there are some of us who don't know anyone on those kind of wages.

I live in a part of the UK not known for its affluence, and a long way from London, and 6 figure salaries are really only head teachers and hospital consultants. We don't have either as friends.

I too remember writing cheques and hoping they’d take 4 or 5 days to clear because otherwise they’d bounce. For the first 25 years of marriage this was life; buying the cheapest food possible, being very frugal was the norm, clothes for Christmas and birthdays from my parents etc.
Ironically my parents were well off but never offered help (and if I’d asked I would have got short shrift)
Luckily now we’re comfortable but I will never forget those years, I don’t think my DCs ever realised how hard it was. I remember doing agency nights on top of working full time as a nurse, just to be able to buy a new duvet cover when our only double one fell apart at the seams, or the DCs new shoes.
Unexpected expenses were a nightmare.

@Lottapianos

'I think this says a lot about modern day “poverty”. A window cleaner - hardly a necessity.'

That's what you took from her story? Really? The woman didn't have SIX QUID to spare and you're moaning that she was spending on the wrong things. So heartless

I often hide from the wheelie clean lady when she comes to collect her £3 every other Monday.. because I simply don't have it! She gets it in the end. I make sure I reserve it out of our next wages. And I like m The wheelie bin to be cheap but don't particularly want to clean it myself.

I used to live in my overdraft and each time I got paid, never reached the black. The only way out of this was, when I got my loan to buy a new (second hand) car, I borrowed enough to clear the overdraft as well. Then I closed my account with Barclays which was charging me daily for being in my overdraft (vicious circle) I went to bank with nationwide instead which is much fairer. Now I'm paying off the loan but I have no overdraft.

We actually see ourselves as comfortably off. We work hard, pay our bills and treat ourselves to a package holiday abroad a year (usually). If we really want something. we work harder for it and do overtime (that's mainly DH who has the overtime opportunities but I do do surveys to bump up the income a bit further. If we want an evening our with friends in Wetherspoons, we do the same.

Yes we run out of money every single month.. but we have so much more then either of us had growing up. In my house there was no car, no phone, we didn't even have a VCR until I treated the family and rented one when I started work. We are positively rich now compared to that! It's all about perspective

*should say, I like the wheelie bin to be clean...

Also, I am pleased as punch when the Tesco Clubcard vouchers come through. (Usually only a few pounds as a general shopping Aldi. ) I hoard them in my purse and know that when the money runs out at the end of the month I can go get a few bits with them as needed. V handy!

You're very lucky not to be in this position. It's this way for lots and lots of people.

This is my life. I work, but life is expensive.

@roarfeckingroarr

This isn't common, despite MN's competitive "you don't know you're born" BS

How do you know @roarfeckingroarr??

The thread is an eye opener about people's beliefs and blinkered assumptions. And I don't mean the OP

Completely normal here.

Someone will be along in a minute and say "well if you're always running out of money how come you can afford the Internet?!"

The thread is an eye opener about people's beliefs and blinkered assumptions. And I don't mean the OP

There are loads of threads with people posting what they do if they earn more than x amount @ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHaands (fellow REM fan BTW).

In fact there is yet another one today, which already has over 300 replies:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4296228-To-ask-what-your-job-is-if-you-earn-50k-plus

Believe me the number of posters who love to post how much they earn is depressing (and tacky). One even regularly states that she earned 10x her reasonably well paid ex husband.

I find it even more depressing that so many people are having to scrimp and save, and so I regularly donate to food and clothing banks. I didn't know that you could do a direct debit to food banks, so I will be setting one up.

I don't qualify to be on that other thread BTW.

Sadly, this is reality to the majority if the population. And then there's the significant portion who live in their overdraft and credit cards.

It can extremely stressful but for most, it's the norm and they deal with it as best as possible. Money doesn't bring happiness but it really does help!

You're very lucky if you're someone shocked at this discovery and I hope you never have to experience it - nobody in this country should have to live hand to mouth but lots of us do.

And don't worry about offending people when offering help and support. If you're friends and it's siad from a place of friendship, it shouldn't offend and if it does, it's their issue, not yours. My friends and I have often helped each other out - it's what friends do.

Sadly, this is reality to the majority if the population

I disagree. It is reality for a significant minority. I doubt very much that more than 50% of adults in this country have no money for half the week every week. It's unsustainable. Also, do you really believe that all these people voted Tory? Really?

I remember, many years ago, having 35p in my purse the day before pay day.

It's not unusual for people to live hand to mouth, pay day to pay day, at least for a while; they generally become better off financially, eventually.

Something I learned to do was put small change in a jar, husband did same. We could then dip in when necessary. I still do it though don't have to now, force of habit.

@RampantIvy

Sadly, this is reality to the majority if the population

I disagree. It is reality for a significant minority. I doubt very much that more than 50% of adults in this country have no money for half the week every week. It's unsustainable. Also, do you really believe that all these people voted Tory? Really?

@RampantIvy I fear you may be misinformed. If it's not a majority then I suspect it's a much larger minority then you believe.

Yes, many people voted Tory for the first time because the only reasonable alternative was absolutely dire as well. And politicians lie.

Many many people live in their overdrafts and many more run out of money before payday. I am not stating they're starving or destitute and many (like me) don't even consider themselves poor. But it certainly is how we live. Others just aren't aware how many of us are working very very hard achieving the minimum way or something just above it

2.5m people used a food bank in the uk in 2020/21
It's a shocking statistic and indicates serious problems with how we run our country.

However clearly the vast majority of UK citizens didn't use a food bank in 2020/21. It's really not normal to have no money in your bank account for half of every month. Although this is the reality for far too many of us, it is definitely not normal.

I've been in this situation in the past and in a lot of ways, despite a good income I still am. However, the difference nowadays is that its because I'm a) paying off some credit from having an extension and b) because I save different mowny for different things. For example I save each month into a Lifetime ISA so that I have a bit of a nest egg on top of my pension. I also pay into Premium Bonds each month and then draw it out for Christmas gifts each year, and finally I have another ISA that I pay into monthly for household expenses such as broken windows etc. Once I've paid the credit off in 5 months I'll be £700 a month better off, but until then I'm absolutely insolvent for day to day spends. I get paid in 9 days and have £4 in the bank, but I have fuel, food and my bills are all paid.

In the past I didn't have these luxuries and actually couldn't cover the bills let alone have emergency savings. It's a tough life.

@Prinzy I agree I'm always sceptical of govt stats on such things.

That 85% have savings I'm deeply sceptical of. Not just because of the poverty angle but because in my experience even better off people aren't always that organised.

Possibly that was true at one point but I suspect it's a heavily massaged stat

It's certainly not my experience at all and I have friends and family from a wide variety of social-economic backgrounds.

There are the poor ones juggling a super tight budget but there are also better off and even wealthy ones who are pretty scatty at managing their budgets

It's the Government people should be angry with and I hope people bear this in mind on polling day!

Absolutely! The gap between rich and poor in this country is wider than its ever been.

Every time we think we are going to get out of it, something comes along to push us back down.

Yep! I think many of us know that feeling.

It's what happens when you pay an extortionate amount of rent each month and why it's never been possible for us to save for a mortgage.

Some on here - and elsewhere actually - may be fed up of me saying so but I'll keep saying it until it changes.

Housing prices in Uk are artificially high and we have a major homelessness crisis. The main reason in my opinion is govt pandering to property developers and landlords. The reason we have that happening is because MPs are allowed to BE landlords or property developers or at least have financial interests in such enterprises while serving as MPs. When you look at how these MPs (of all parties) vote on housing they almost always vote AGAINST measures that would start to bring housing prices down or give tenants more rights. In my opinion it's a conflict of interest and should be banned. MPs should not be allowed to have interests, I'd actually go as far as to extend that to their immediate families too, while serving as mps.

Just another rule weve been conditioned to put on ourselves that benefits no one but the employers and the aristocratic rich

I totally agree but it exists nonetheless. Although another reason it exists is the judgmental attitudes of those who've never been in that position themselves.

In real life I don't discuss with ANYONE my income, which benefits I get etc except with those people I absolutely have to because I know from experience the negative and even aggressive and attacking comments and behaviour that can attract.

This govt especially has created a culture where benefits recipients and the poor generally are demonised and the TRULY greedy wealthy tax dodgers are excused.

But are some (not all obviously as anyone could find themselves suddenly jobless etc etc and facing same problems) brought on by people's desire to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

@Sandles12 you've fallen for a Tory myth. No the vast vast majority of poor people aren't poor due to irresponsibility but due to bad luck and lack of support. Social mobility is not only not moving upwards at the moment it's declining.

Cuts to education and healthcare being the main factors.

The majority of poor people know how to budget and "cut their cloth" but there's only so much cutting one can do. If a sudden and unpredictable or impossible to avoid expense occurs - like a power cut or income cock up by someone else - you're stuffed!

When you're poor you also tend not to be able to have good credit so any debt you incur tends to be expensive too.

Ever heard "it's expensive to be poor"? It's true in many ways

Not being able to take advantage of special offers - from supermarket 3 for 2, to clothes sales, to bigger purchases because you haven't the savings to dip into to "pay ahead"

Being on a prepay energy meter - per unit far more expensive than credit customers pay

Not being able to buy transport season tickets for work transport (I remember absolutely skinning myself starting one job in order to be able to buy a 4 week ticket rather than a 1 week that worked out around 30% more expensive)

Having to buy cheaper goods that don't last as long and need replacing more frequently

I didn't even know I was being financially abused and controlled

This is also very common - and we see it a lot on mn too. Posters trying to figure out a budget when actually what's going on is they're being financially abused. We need much more publicity/awareness about this. I would say the soaps need to take this up as they reach a lot of people (though admittedly I'm no longer a viewer myself) and are able to illustrate this kind of thing very well.

I think it's good op that you've made the effort to look at your local situation and start to learn about this.

I understand the withdrawing I have ocd and depression and anxiety which has manifested as agoraphobia. It can feel safer to do that, but it doesn't mean you're not capable of learning more - which is what you have started to do.

I think you may find this site/organisation interesting and informative

https://www.jrf.org.uk

I would also suggest you look at this site/organisation

https://england.shelter.org.uk

And this one if you haven't already come across them

https://www.trusselltrust.org

These organisations don't only try and support those in poverty and help them with the difficulties they face, they also research and campaign for changes. Shelter even take on legal cases which lead to changes in the law. Eg they had recent success with getting it made illegal to advertise rental properties as being barred to those on benefits. Now we need that change to occur in reality too but it's a start

If you're able to you can make donations to good charities (investigate them donate to the ones you believe in) or you could volunteer (doesn't need to be "customer facing" it can be checking stock/inventory, doing admin etc) or at the very least you can support campaigns by sharing on sm, signing petitions, writing to your mp or local councillors etc as pp says by giving away things on local freecycle groups and pages, I live in a deprived area and these pages are very active and very community minded. As well as the usual giveaways we have a few locals who give of their time and skills to those less fortunate, there's a lady who knits blankets and wee outfits that she gives away to families with new babies who aren't doing so well or the blankets to elderly folk who feel the cold and worry about energy bills, there's a chap who puts up flat pack furniture free for people who can just about manage to buy cheap furniture, there's another chap repairs kids bikes for free, there's a lady who repairs stuffed toys, there's a couple that collect from peoples homes any donations of clothes and food for the street homeless, when we had a particularly cold winter they really pushed for donations of coats, socks and warm clothing... it's amazing

I'm housebound and I do what I can, I donate when I'm able not always cash I'm a knitter so sometimes it's blankets, hats, scarves..., I sign petitions, raise issues with my Mp etc

As mentioned in my first post it also matters who you vote for.

Everyone can do SOMETHING

@Marmitemarinaded some landlords have rules about window cleaning and some windows cannot be accessed safely by tenants - eg in a flat more than 2 storeys high

That was an unnecessarily negative comment tbh

How would we know?

Op has a slightly different perspective due to having a condition. I would say most neurotypical people should be aware just by things like news reports, social media shares (unless you have a weirdly very narrow set up on yours), political campaigns, being aware of the circumstances of those around you (even if they're not your family and friends). If you're not housebound like me then at the very least surely you notice the rise in street homelessness?!

I don’t think my DCs ever realised how hard it was

I've had conversations with dd since she got old enough that led to me learning that certain events/decisions/things we did which were due to our not having much money that at the time she says she simply thought was me coming up with a fun and unusual idea - carpet picnics when all I had in was odd bits and bobs, walking pretty much everywhere (dd apparently thought I loved walking), day trips where I'd bring our own picnic rather than buy food there (dd thought this was because she was fussy and I was veggie), going to local community events in school holidays because they were free (they tended to be library/museum based dd thought it was a cultural/educational decision of mine)

I'm glad she didn't know at the time it was cos I was skint! But I also think that it was important she knew the truth when she was old enough.

Also, do you really believe that all these people voted Tory? Really?

Entirely possible. I know people on benefits, disabled, seriously ill, pensioners barely getting by who still vote Tory. I think they're daft! But they definitely exist. They still believe the myth that tories are better for the economy (now widely debunked) and that labour and other parties are bad for the economy and will make their lot worse (even though when I've spoken with them they've admitted the times they were better off was under labour govts) it's bizarre how the Tory party managed to garner votes from the very people they vilify, demonise and even punish (via policies and legislation)

Cognitive dissonance is a huge factor

@DisgruntledPelican

You can be lovely and also poor, OP

Im not sure how many times exactly I need to explain my comment.

I said she was lovely in relation to her not taking offence at my offer to pick up a few things for her
Not that I believe lovely people can’t be poor