Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Miss Mrs Ms

233 replies

DinosaurDiana · 08/07/2021 17:23

I know we’ve had this discussion before, and I said that I wish we had one title for women like men. I was told we do - Ms, but I’m not that fond of it. To me it says left on the shelf female, but I’ll no doubt be told that that is my own prejudice !! It’s actually from having older, unmarried teachers at school.
However, I am going to use it on unofficial things like my Tesco and Next account to change my own attitude.

OP posts:
Whatabouttery · 10/07/2021 11:01

Every time one of my friends got married, took their husband's name and the title Mrs. my feminist heart broke a little.

DerisorySnort · 10/07/2021 11:14

I'm married and use Miss as I don't see why I have to change my title
You don't though, and didn't. It's a choice. Mrs, Miss, Ms... whatever your marital status, it's a choice. Wedding and engagement rings are a choice, too.

As I said above, I'd prefer one title for all females, but I'm pleased that everyone else can do as they please and wouldn't want to deny choice to other women. Hopefully, things will gradually head towards one title anyway. Or even better, titles will fall out of use completely.

Hopdathelf · 10/07/2021 11:28

I’d prefer no titles for anyone. If sex is important then it can be included as separate information. It matters not a jot to John Lewis, Fortnum & Mason or the like if I’m male or female. And it certainly doesn’t matter if I’m married or not.

TheVampiresWife · 10/07/2021 11:32

Being proud to be married is almost as weird as being proud to be British (or whatever nationality). Makes no sense at all.

I'm a married Ms, though when I first got married (to exH, 30 years ago when I was 18) I was a Mrs - I genuinely thought you had to be a Mrs when you got married, and also thought you had to take your husband's name.

DH's surname is the same as my mother's maiden name, which I'd changed mine to after my divorce. So I didn't actually take his name when we married, it was mine already!

Summerleaves · 10/07/2021 11:39

My grandmother was genuinely surprised when I didn't change my name on marriage, she asked 'are you allowed to do that?' i.e. keep original name.

I don't think she liked my grandfather very much so would probably have liked to keep her name!

Silvercatowner · 10/07/2021 12:32

One of the benefits of a doctorate is being able to leave all this crap behind.

Summerleaves · 10/07/2021 12:33

@Silvercatowner

One of the benefits of a doctorate is being able to leave all this crap behind.
That would be my main motivation! Sadly I'm not clever enough
woodhill · 10/07/2021 12:40

I wasn't keen on my old surname. Both my 20:something dds have taken their dhs names

M0nkeybars · 10/07/2021 13:19

Why are we still asked for ANY titles at all??!

Akire · 10/07/2021 20:11

I guess single women are “dangerous” going off stealing peoples husbands best to have some prior warning Grin

M0nkeybars · 10/07/2021 20:36

@Akire

I guess single women are “dangerous” going off stealing peoples husbands best to have some prior warning Grin

Well that is true 🤣

SmackMyAssnCallMeJudy · 10/07/2021 22:28

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]@Hopdathelf that’s not for to judge though. Being proud of something is a personal thing. Live and let live.[/quote]
People can judge - or more accurately, have an opinion on absolutely anything they like!

Sosigsandwich · 10/07/2021 23:35

I'm early 30s and genuinely don't know a single female friend who hasn't become Mrs NewSurname on marriage.

I thought ms was unmarried women who didn't want people to know they were still single.

Iggi999 · 10/07/2021 23:40

GrinGrin well it wouldn't be doing a good job of that then would it!
It is hard to believe an adult female would not know what Ms meant. I do notice that amongst people I work with the younger women are far more likely to change their name and/or not use Ms. I suppose they thing all their rights are won, I'm not sure.

SmackMyAssnCallMeJudy · 10/07/2021 23:49

I thought ms was unmarried women who didn't want people to know they were still single.

Most of the time, it’s married women not wanting people to know they’re married. Or at least not seeing why people need to know that!

BarbaraofSeville · 11/07/2021 06:06

Maybe Ms is used by both married and unmarried women who want equality with men as far as titles go?

Plus even if someone isn't married, they're not necessarily single. I'm a long term partnered Ms so I wouldn't consider myself single.

We have our own reasons for not being married, but seeing as I would be financially disadvantaged if we married and then split, it's not something I'm pushing anyway.

echt · 11/07/2021 06:15

@DinosaurDiana

I know we’ve had this discussion before, and I said that I wish we had one title for women like men. I was told we do - Ms, but I’m not that fond of it. To me it says left on the shelf female, but I’ll no doubt be told that that is my own prejudice !! It’s actually from having older, unmarried teachers at school. However, I am going to use it on unofficial things like my Tesco and Next account to change my own attitude.
The teachers are not unmarried. They are single.

Your observation about age may be more to the point: I know few women of my age who use anything except Ms, and none who use their husband's name.

Billandben444 · 11/07/2021 07:49

I'm Mrs, even though I've been divorced 14 yrs.
As am I and it's been 25 years for me. I wanted to keep my EXH's surname so it would be the same as the children and putting Ms before it would have felt odd. I've been unmarried and living with 'new' partner for 22 years now and he doesn't mind in the slightest. I also wear my mother's eternity ring and my late sister's beautiful solitaire on my 'ring finger' because that's the one they fit - he used to say it made visits to B&Bs interesting.
Surely the point of feminism is that women get to choose not that they have to follow the herd?

MsAwesomeDragon · 11/07/2021 08:00

I'm a Ms, have been since I was about 25 when I started teaching. I'm married but still Ms and still my own surname.

My daughter is Ms as well. She's 21, and put Ms on her bank account when she opened it at 16, with the idea that she'll be Ms all through her life. She seems unlikely to ever change it, as i can't imagine her getting round to changing her name everywhere even if she does eventually marry.

Musmerian · 11/07/2021 08:24

@Cheapskatewedding

The only people I know IRL that use Ms are divorced or a bit bitter and angry. Which I know may/is also be a sexist judgement…

I am furious my options are that, or to announce my marital status before my name

I will be dr next year but then I feel like Ross from friends - not a real dr!

Wow! Mumsnet is like some weird 50s throwback. I’ve been Ms since teens and now 54. Married twice but kept own surname. The misogynistic value judgments from some women on here are quite an eye opener.
RobinPenguins · 11/07/2021 08:28

I use Mrs and Ms about an equal amount of time. Can’t get exercised about whether someone calls me Miss either.

RosesAndHellebores · 11/07/2021 10:32

Mrs John Hellebores = correct form of address for a married woman
Mrs Roses Hellebores = correct form of address for a divorced woman
Miss Hellebores = unmarried woman.
Ms Hellebores = neutral form of address

It's a minefield and time has eroded the conventions but I don't think it's the issue it's blown into although I can see that the conventions need to be revisited but even so it is unlikely there will be agreement.

What irks me more are situations when men are afforded the courtesy of a title and it is assumed women should not be. Very typical in the NHS when men are called in as Mr John Jones and women as Jane Jones. It isn't difficult to note the person's preference on the notes but that would contradict an hierarchical and misogynistic culture.

NavigatingAdolescence · 11/07/2021 11:05

@Billandben444

I'm Mrs, even though I've been divorced 14 yrs. As am I and it's been 25 years for me. I wanted to keep my EXH's surname so it would be the same as the children and putting Ms before it would have felt odd. I've been unmarried and living with 'new' partner for 22 years now and he doesn't mind in the slightest. I also wear my mother's eternity ring and my late sister's beautiful solitaire on my 'ring finger' because that's the one they fit - he used to say it made visits to B&Bs interesting. Surely the point of feminism is that women get to choose not that they have to follow the herd?
The point of feminism is equality between the sexes. Majority of men don’t think about changing names ever without judgement. They don’t have an option to change title. So why do women still have to make that choice and have society judge them accordingly?
NavigatingAdolescence · 11/07/2021 11:07

@RosesAndHellebores

Mrs John Hellebores = correct form of address for a married woman Mrs Roses Hellebores = correct form of address for a divorced woman Miss Hellebores = unmarried woman. Ms Hellebores = neutral form of address

It's a minefield and time has eroded the conventions but I don't think it's the issue it's blown into although I can see that the conventions need to be revisited but even so it is unlikely there will be agreement.

What irks me more are situations when men are afforded the courtesy of a title and it is assumed women should not be. Very typical in the NHS when men are called in as Mr John Jones and women as Jane Jones. It isn't difficult to note the person's preference on the notes but that would contradict an hierarchical and misogynistic culture.

Anyone referring to me as Mrs Hisname gets referred to his mother.

Anyone referring to me as Mrs Hisfirstname Hisname gets ignored entirely.

It is NOT etiquette to call somebody by a name they do not go by. It is RUDE.

RosesAndHellebores · 11/07/2021 11:39

@NavigatingAdolescence whether you like it or not, it remains the correct etiquette and I don't think ignoring people is polite. Particularly when their actions are rooted in the past and they don't mean to cause offence.

Having said that I quite understand that the wishes of my 20 somethings are different to my mother's but that doesn't make my mother rude. Mother's 85, I'm 61, dd is 22. Etiquette evolves and in this instance it has some catching up to do.

I took my husband's name (my unmarried name was ghastly, his is lovely). There is neither the same pressure to do so nowadays nor the same pressure to be married but he is unequivocally my husband rather than my partner and equally I have gay friends who refer to their husbands and wives rather than their partners.

If ds and his girlfriend marry I have no doubt she will keep her name and I would never refer to her as Mrs his name surname because it is dated and I respect their more modern social norms but if my mother did and was ignored I'd find that very rude indeed. Respect works two ways and one must be sensitive to the practices of others.

The most profound part of my marriage was the blessing of the rings before God and that is something I cannot begin to explain but the experience was profound and visceral and bound us together.