Grandson likely to go into care ... im broken

[Littlelegs2]

Daughter was put in refuge . Just a room. On the same day . She got offered a 2 bed temporary flat and she really wanted it. Told her to contact her social worker for advice. I said to Daughter they won't want you to take the 2 bed. Because the refuge is about you getting in house support keeping your son safe etc . This is what they told her . They were advising her to stay there but also saying it was her choice . They explained how her ex is a heigh risk how he's made threats to kill. How he keeps saying he's going to go after her. That he wants to see her son. And then she kept saying you say I have a choice you say its up to me but it's not is it. She was shouting at them . Then they said to her they have to advice her that they are doing a legal planning meeting and they will send her a list of solicitors. I can't get her to understand very basic things. She keeps saying things like. They won't listen to me. They are stopping me having this nice place to live . She agues over everything. I Don't know what to do anymore.

@beigebrownblue

To clarify.

20 hours neither here nor there.

I stand by that statement.

Many, many, many partners have not left abusive people and are part of nuclear families still. That is what I meant. Neither here nor there. Not to say I am condoning anything. I said that. I have been to refuge myself. Don't jump on my comments. It is not useful to anyone.

I think the point is more that it is irrelevant what is happening in other families, & that the facts on the page here (20 hrs contact with DV partner by choice) make the environment an unsafe one for the little boy. Comparing families & situations I'd useful in some scenarios but bears no fruit here. The little boy is the centre of all decisions here, as it should be, and facts clearly show he's at risk.

Yes, in the best of refuges, women are offered support but not necessarily from social services unless this is required by law.

The law in this situation relates to a parents capacity to keep her child safe - if there’s evidence to suggest the child is at risk of significant harm, the law says sw has a duty to protect the child. Being in a refuge and engaging with their support would be considered part of the process of keeping the child safe, if mum refuses to stay in a refuge and maintains contact with her abuser sw have to consider that the child isn’t safe.

You were in a refuge 16 years ago - of course your experience is relevant, but child protection law has changed hugely during that time, access to supports looks very different. The professionals in the refuge will contribute to the sw investigation and decision making around how safe the child is, as will the health visitor, nursery, and any other professionals involved with the family.

Child protection is now a multi-agency process, it’s not just sw who will contribute to an assessment of safety for the child, though they will represent the whole assessment in legal proceedings.

Somehow you must get her to go along with the help they will offer her. The minute she starts fighting it and thinks she knows better and that they are controlling her is when she will be on a downwards spiral .

Never put the ex before the child .
Ever .

This makes me so sad.She's choosing a violent man over her son.The fact SS has put her into a refuge and has her son on the child protection register because she's in contact with the ex tells you everything you need to know.

This reminds me of my cousin who's very selfish;she got herself involved with a violent unemployed drug addict who's beats her.The neighbours called the police who informed SS.She already had a SW due to a multitude of issue child protection issues being amongst them.

She lied to SS and said the bloke didn't live there and the relationship was over;it wasn't and he hadn't moved out.SS told her it'll be a choice between him and her DD so she dropped her DD off at DD's dads for the weekend and didn't bother to ever pick her up again.

She's since had a baby with this cretin;how involved SS are I don't know as she's cut all contact with family since being with the cretin.

[quote mathanxiety]@PennyRoyal, his father is in prison for domestic violence against his mother. Not sure what you expect him or his parents to be able to contribute to the well-being of their son/ grandson?
.........

As for the 20 hours. Neither here nor there. There are women in nuclear families who stay with their abusive partners and never leave.
I don't think you're right about this, @beigebrownblue.
It takes a lot for a man to be put away for DV. The 20 hours of contact means that her poor judgement of how dangerous he is comes into play. She's making decisions about her relationship with this man not only for herself but for a child. If she can't understand that she has to stop all contact forever, then the child's welfare becomes a concern for SWs.

Of course there are thousands of families who SWs never have contact with because women put up with violence, and everyone just suffers through it. That is irrelevant. When SWs do become involved, the victims have to decide for once and for all between partner and children.[/quote]

No, I believe the man in prison is not the child's biological father. It's the mother's "partner".

My Q still stands - where are the child's paternal family in all this? They may well be able to help support the child while the mother works with SS to provide a safe future.

This sounds really shit. But I think where he's been in prison a part of her has either forgotten all the shit or she's blocked it out.

This is what happens with victims of abuse, the abusers somehow get into their head and make them feel guilty or make them feel it was their fault so they end up taking them back. It is a lot harder for them to take them back if they are in a refuge so I hope your DD stays put.

Someone I know has a boyfriend who has been in prison 3 times for beating her and has recently gone in again for attempted murderer because he hurt her so badly this time. She has spent the past 2 weeks crying to her mum that she should have never phoned the police and she doesn’t know how she’s going to cope without him etc it’s honestly heart breaking.

If she is being offered a 2 bed temporary flat that will be because it's for her and DS. If she does not stay in the refuge she risks losing him, and she will lose the flat too if he's not with her.

I was in a similar situation, and this was all explained to me but that it had to be my choice. It wasn't really a choice though. It was a choice between being with my DC in the refuge, and being in a homeless hostel for single adults a few months down the line, if that makes sense?

Yes she could fight it, and living in refuge is not easy I know that, but for me it gave me the distance and separation I needed. The spell I had been under lifted and even though it was one of the most stressful and difficult times of my life, I now have no social work involvement, live with my DC settled in a new area, we are safe from my ex and healing from the abuse. It was hard but so necessary.

Social services don't directly tell people what to do, but they give you hard choices and there is definitely a right one. I have seen women leave refuge and lose their DC, but I haven't seen any women who stuck it out in refuge who lost their DC. It did feel like I lost my civil liberties and my agency as an adult, a woman, a parent, but sometimes we have to temporarily give up our freedoms to live as we want, to be free from risk of harm.

I really hope your daughter sees sense, but whatever happens do everything you can to be present in your DD and DGS life. Whatever choices she makes, they both need support and love and family. And family support is one of the things SS take into account as a protective factor in not removing children from their parents care.

They might be able to find a way to improve your housing situation so he can come into your care instead of going into the system too, it would be easier and cheaper for them to try and find a suitable Home for you all than to place him outside of his family.

The 20hrs of prison visits is concerning because 20hrs is a long time for them to get in your head. I didn't speak a word to my ex, changed my phone number and everything, but even receiving emails or message requests on Facebook set me back and put his voice back in my head. Previously, when I had tried to break from him he had been on the phone and would undo anything I did to try and change the narrative. The gaslighting and lying and manipulation was so strong it felt like my Brain didn't even work. Now it baffles me why I ever believed him, but these men are incredibly good at what they do. Whatever she does, she is not in her right mind right now. That's on him, not on her. She is not herself right now. But hopefully with your guidance she can be herself again and see the truth once more.

All the luck in the world.

Your dd isn't showing any desire to actually parent her dc.

While it's great that you are able to support her she doesn't actually seem to spend much time with her dc.

She comes to your house every day. You look after dc while she "chills" for hours. She then does to the gym for 3 hours every evening.

If contact has only resumed with the ex in the last couple of weeks then 20 hours is a lot of contact.

Your dd isn't showing any desire to actually parent her dc.

Agree, the poor child stuck in the middle and being subjected to all this. From what I can make out from the OP's posts the child was 15 months old when her dd became involved with the violent abuser, child was in this situation for 9 months, abuser has been jailed for nearly a year and in that year there has been a chaotic bouncing around from place to place. No stable environment at all.

The mother of the child prioritises spending time hanging around with the trainers at the gym over being with her child.

The effect of all this on the child cannot be underestimated or minimised, the child needs to be put first. As someone said earlier Social services are advocating for the child not the adult, the welfare of the child is the priority.

We are waiting on paper work so we can get take that to a solicitor.

I have also spoken to sw. We both understand/agree that daughter does not fully understand. She said that I'm doing all I should be and that I have a good understanding of the situation. She did say that they would consider gs staying with me . She has taken my details so I guess they will be looking at me .

@Littlelegs2 that's really great news. I'm glad you were able to speak to the social worker. I sincerely hope they consider you as a temporary placement (assuming they can resolve your housing issue). Hopefully in time your daughter can learn to see what she is doing.

It sounds like talking to the social worker was helpful. Good luck with everything @Littlelegs2

That’s good news , I really can’t see why your lack of perfect housing should mean that your grandson needs to end up in the care system , much better that should the need arise he stays with his family .

That's a good update op. I really hope your daughter can put her son first and build a life for them away from this man.

@PennyRoyal - thank you, I stand corrected.

That makes it even more likely that the child is in serious danger from this man.

It is more than likely that if she does manage to cut ties with the abuser, she will end up repeating history with some trainer or customer from the gym she spends hours at every day.

Just to add, actually I have also fulfilled safeguarding roles at the frontline recently so my experience is not out of date as one poster suggests.

Good luck with it OP.

Does she a really want to be DGS's primary carer?

She doesn't seem to have much of an independent routine with him.

He's 3 but not in nursery and the only socialisation he gets is with your DCs? Have the toddler groups there not started up again?

She sounds very lonely.

It's all just a sorry situation.

@felulageller

Does she a really want to be DGS's primary carer?

She doesn't seem to have much of an independent routine with him.

He's 3 but not in nursery and the only socialisation he gets is with your DCs? Have the toddler groups there not started up again?

She sounds very lonely.

It's all just a sorry situation.

She has tried getting nursery places and they are all full. She has found a place for September though.

Thinking about you today @Littlelegs2, hope you are able to do something nice as a distraction 💐🌼🍵☔️

@Ilovethewild

Thinking about you today *@Littlelegs2*, hope you are able to do something nice as a distraction 💐🌼🍵☔️

Thank you 🤞🥺

Don't want. Say to much . But just a small update. Dd is allowed to keep gs but she's got alot of work to do. Hopefully she will do it in a positive way and start to built on things to make things better for her and gs.

@Littlelegs2

Don't want. Say to much . But just a small update. Dd is allowed to keep gs but she's got alot of work to do. Hopefully she will do it in a positive way and start to built on things to make things better for her and gs.

Good news indeed. Sounds as though she is starting to listen to advice from you and others. Keep going at it gently, water dripping on stone etc etc.

This is great. Do you think she has a better grasp of it all? Does she seem motivated to keep away from her ex?
I hope it all works out, really great that her son's still with her and she has a chance to build a better life for them.