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Original poster

Grandson likely to go into care ... im broken

228 replies

Littlelegs2 · 16/06/2021 18:04

Daughter was put in refuge . Just a room. On the same day . She got offered a 2 bed temporary flat and she really wanted it. Told her to contact her social worker for advice. I said to Daughter they won't want you to take the 2 bed. Because the refuge is about you getting in house support keeping your son safe etc . This is what they told her . They were advising her to stay there but also saying it was her choice . They explained how her ex is a heigh risk how he's made threats to kill. How he keeps saying he's going to go after her. That he wants to see her son. And then she kept saying you say I have a choice you say its up to me but it's not is it. She was shouting at them . Then they said to her they have to advice her that they are doing a legal planning meeting and they will send her a list of solicitors. I can't get her to understand very basic things. She keeps saying things like. They won't listen to me. They are stopping me having this nice place to live . She agues over everything. I Don't know what to do anymore.

OP posts:
BabyBearRus · 17/06/2021 00:14

This similar situation happened in my friend's family. Please tell your daughter to sever all contact now and listen to legal advice. My friend's cousin did not and she lost her two kids. SS do not look favourably on those who have reported domestic abuse and then remain in contact with their abusers by choice. My friend's cousin hasn't had much contact with her kids for two years. She is treated with the same contempt as her ex... despite her blind spot re her ex, she was a lovely mum. So sad.

HalzTangz · 17/06/2021 00:17

She chose to take his calls therefore she chose to have contact with him

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:17

me4real

Yes, agree. People shouldn't implicitly trust SS.

Coudln't agree more.

However, refuges are different. Some are absolutely brilliant. Some not so well funded and not so good.

However, it comes down to ultimately how strong the woman feels and how strongly mother child relationship can be restored.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:18

Thank you also OP for posting. It must be very hard for you.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:20

Also not every avenue of legal advice knows the score.

Contact Right of Women.

Jellycatspyjamas · 17/06/2021 00:23

As for the 20 hours. Neither here nor there. There are women in nuclear families who stay with their abusive partners and never leave.

If he’s in prison due to domestic abuse offences, it suggests a high level of violence and/or repeat offending - custodial sentences don’t get handed down for no reason. If she’s managed 20 hours contact while his level of contact with the outside world should be very restricted it suggests a determination on both parts to continue the relationship. That will certainly inform services view about whether she can safely care for her child. It’s really not nothing.

BabyBearRus · 17/06/2021 00:27

Just want to reiterate that your darling grandchild is the most important person in all of this. If you are one hundred percent that you and/or your daughter can give this innocent little soul the love, care, security and shelter that this little one deserves then good on you. If you cannot, then you need to reconsider what is best for their interests and wellbeing.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:30

Hey Jellcats pyjamas,

In no way, no shape or form did I say it was 'nothing'.

You said:

If he’s in prison due to domestic abuse offences, it suggests a high level of violence and/or repeat offending - custodial sentences don’t get handed down for no reason. If she’s managed 20 hours contact while his level of contact with the outside world should be very restricted it suggests a determination on both parts to continue the relationship. That will certainly inform services view about whether she can safely care for her child.

I said
(and at the very beginning of my posts on this thread) that I have been to refuge myself.

Also, inevitably witnessed various scenarios of woman around me.
I'm not clueless, thanks.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:36

Rights of Women. Well established website.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:45

Also just wanted to be clear, all posters urging not to have any contact with perpetrator, very sensible.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 00:49

Very sorry if I appeared to be insensitive. Was really not intentional.

lakesummer · 17/06/2021 00:57

As for the 20 hours. Neither here nor there.

If the mother is in a refuge and should be having no contact with the abuser then it is a significant issue.

However a pp is right, the mother shouldn't trust that ss will have her best interests at heart. They won't. They are child protection social workers and their focus will be on children not adults.

Now that social services are aware of significant risk they will be looking for the signs that mum is able to keep dc safe.

It isn't fair from a feminist perspective that women are first abused and then judged on their ability to stand up to their abuser.
But they are because for social services the focus is the child and not adult.

So if mum wants to keep her child she needs to stop all contact with her abuser. She does a choice but it definitely isn't consequence free.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 01:11

To clarify.

20 hours neither here nor there.

I stand by that statement.

Many, many, many partners have not left abusive people and are part of nuclear families still. That is what I meant. Neither here nor there. Not to say I am condoning anything. I said that. I have been to refuge myself. Don't jump on my comments. It is not useful to anyone.

me4real · 17/06/2021 01:16

However a pp is right, the mother shouldn't trust that ss will have her best interests at heart. They won't. They are child protection social workers and their focus will be on children not adults.

@lakesummer They can get what's best for the child wrong, too. So women have to tread very carefully if they have any involvement with them, if they care about their child's future. Even then, things can go wrong. It only takes them (sometimes unjustly) not liking someone's face. Systems can fail.

beigebrownblue · 17/06/2021 01:39

you are right me4real. Especially when women and mothers face financial disadvantage with covid over extneded periods of time.
You are right.

me4real · 17/06/2021 02:08

@beigebrownblue And in a lot of cases abusers use legal systems to continue their abuse, charm SS to be on their side and support them against the victim etc.

Luckily it doesn't seem like SS are fans of this particular guy at the mo.

Nat6999 · 17/06/2021 03:16

Your dd needs legal advice urgently before the hearing, otherwise there is a chance that they will bamboozle her in to signing her child away.

lakesummer · 17/06/2021 03:18

She will automatically be given legal advice.
Every parent is given a legal team to represent them.
The LA has one.
The dc has their own.

No one will be looking to bamboozle anyone.

choli · 17/06/2021 03:43

@Nat6999

Your dd needs legal advice urgently before the hearing, otherwise there is a chance that they will bamboozle her in to signing her child away.
Confused
me4real · 17/06/2021 03:45

@lakesummer It happens sometimes- not all social worker are saints or right at all times, not all lawyers are good or work hard for their clients etc. My friend had supposed legal support that was given to her and they really didn't help her at all. Barely did anything. They even tried to get her to give up trying to get her son back.

@Littlelegs2 I'm not saying that to put you off, just to say she should get support from anywhere she can get it. And like you've said, she needs to recognize the risks she faces if she doesn't keep her nose clean/head down.

me4real · 17/06/2021 03:48

Just spotted that one- bamboozling into actually signing her child away sounds a bit much. Hopefully that doesn't happen often at all.

lakesummer · 17/06/2021 04:09

@me4real It is perfectly possible that any particular lawyer may not be particularly good or any particular social worker.

But each parent will have a lawyer with them before and during the whole process to represent them.

I just wanted to make sure that people who hadn't had any involvement with the system knew this.

mathanxiety · 17/06/2021 04:39

@PennyRoyal, his father is in prison for domestic violence against his mother. Not sure what you expect him or his parents to be able to contribute to the well-being of their son/ grandson?
.........

As for the 20 hours. Neither here nor there. There are women in nuclear families who stay with their abusive partners and never leave.
I don't think you're right about this, @beigebrownblue.
It takes a lot for a man to be put away for DV. The 20 hours of contact means that her poor judgement of how dangerous he is comes into play. She's making decisions about her relationship with this man not only for herself but for a child. If she can't understand that she has to stop all contact forever, then the child's welfare becomes a concern for SWs.

Of course there are thousands of families who SWs never have contact with because women put up with violence, and everyone just suffers through it. That is irrelevant. When SWs do become involved, the victims have to decide for once and for all between partner and children.

Longestfewdaysupcoming · 17/06/2021 06:18

@mathanxiety his father isn’t in prison for domestic violence against his mother. This is a different bloke - the op clarified that.

Motleyvegetables · 17/06/2021 06:53

@Littlelegs2 from following the thread it’s clear you’ve been trying to support your daughter and help her make safe choices. But you can’t force her too, and nor can Children’s social care (hence the threat of care proceedings looming - where they can seek to gain legal orders to protect your grandson) What you can do is:

  • keep putting your grandsons needs first.
  • ask to speak to the social worker or her manager about your desire to be considered a carer for him
  • contact family rights group for advice about the Children’s Social Care system and kinship care.
  • consider seeking legal advice if you want to pursue being considered a carer for him.

At this point don’t let your housing situation hold you back. Also, even if your own situation is complex, as a grandparent showing an active interest / offering support I would be shocked if they (Children’s Social Care / Court) didn’t at least assess your suitability to be considered (known as a viability assessment)