Grandson likely to go into care ... im broken

[Littlelegs2]

Daughter was put in refuge . Just a room. On the same day . She got offered a 2 bed temporary flat and she really wanted it. Told her to contact her social worker for advice. I said to Daughter they won't want you to take the 2 bed. Because the refuge is about you getting in house support keeping your son safe etc . This is what they told her . They were advising her to stay there but also saying it was her choice . They explained how her ex is a heigh risk how he's made threats to kill. How he keeps saying he's going to go after her. That he wants to see her son. And then she kept saying you say I have a choice you say its up to me but it's not is it. She was shouting at them . Then they said to her they have to advice her that they are doing a legal planning meeting and they will send her a list of solicitors. I can't get her to understand very basic things. She keeps saying things like. They won't listen to me. They are stopping me having this nice place to live . She agues over everything. I Don't know what to do anymore.

Not only might there be concern about the Mum having contact with her ex, but it might be that the actual physical safety of a refuge is what is considered essential

@godmum56 That's a good point, they're not just trying to encourage her to stay to learn about abusers etc and be better able to avoid getting involved with him in future.

They're partly saying 'you can choose to leave but he could kill you.' It's the equivalent of doctors telling someone they're discharging themselves against medical advice.

@selflove

OP, my neice had her first legal planning meeting (public law outline) meeting almost 1yr ago when she was still pregnant, and still has her baby with her. It's just the first steps. They'll outline all the "you need to do X Y Z" if you want to keep your child, and then give her chance (after chance after chance) to do it.

There will be a family group conference of some sort where you'll say you are her support and would like to be assessed for having GS if it came to that. The fact your housing situation isn't great wouldn't be the end of the world, in the assessment the social worker would take through the options of how to resolve that etc.

If anything, the process with my neice has shown me how impossible it is for a child to be removed from parents. My neice hasn't shown up for 3 drug tests, hasn't engaged with support staff, has had police involvement etc and STILL has full custody of her baby. I honestly don't know how much worse she'd have to get before the baby is eventually removed, I dread to imagine.

Thank you. I know that there is a legal planning meeting at the start of the week and a conference at the end of the week.

I know this is daughters mess up for having contact. But there are some things that are not quite right but still build a case against her. Thing is she was talking to a friend pouring her heart out over all the stresses and it turned out the friend was contacting her ex in prison and telling him everything. He then passed that onto his probation officer who then told social services. He also told his probation officer that he knew where she lived . (Not the refuge) (she only moved there today ) police called yesterday and confirmed it was a liar and he does not know where she is.. also he knew about a recent meeting we had with ss. But that information came from the same friend she had spoken to. But she had already told her before the meeting. At which point she worked out who it was. But it was to late as the friend had already Been told . But because dd did talk to him for 20 hrs she's now not trusted and probably don't believe her .

@me4real

Not only might there be concern about the Mum having contact with her ex, but it might be that the actual physical safety of a refuge is what is considered essential

@godmum56 That's a good point, they're not just trying to encourage her to stay to learn about abusers etc and be better able to avoid getting involved with him in future.

They're partly saying 'you can choose to leave but he could kill you.' It's the equivalent of doctors telling someone they're discharging themselves against medical advice.

thank you that is what I thought....in a secure refuge if he does turn up, it will be much less easy for him to get in and do harm?

Talk to social services. If it's just suitable housing that's the problem they might be able to arrange larger accommodation so you can have custody of your gs officially and supervise your dd

@Littlelegs2 would it be possible for you to talk to your grandchilds social worker? If they know you are prepared to have the child, they might be able to help you with your housing situation. You might then have more chance of a kinship care agreement and have your grandchild living with you

Its very clear

Social services want her in the refuge where they can keep an eye on her and make sure she stays away from the violent ‘ex’

Its a very clear choice and you have to tell her straight

She talks / meets the ex and she loses her son

She doesnt have ANY contact with the ‘ex’ and she keeps her son!

It really is that simple!!!!

@baldafrique

What are her feelings now towards her ex? The assault must have been terrible for him to have been imprisoned for months? Does she still want to be with him, do you think?

This sounds really shit. But I think where he's been in prison a part of her has either forgotten all the shit or she's blocked it out. When he was trying to contact her she reported it a the time. And took evidence to the police station . And had police go to her place so she could show evidence. And then she messed up . I don't think she wants to be with him. I think she had a massive wobble that has caused all this. If she had not been offered the 2 bed flat on the same day as the refuge she probably would not have even had the conversation with ss.

I hope she sees she is worth more than this douchebag.

I wonder how many people posting here have actually been in a refuge themselves.

I have.

I have noticed, with all due respect there are some misconceptions about it.

Firstly, noone is forced to go to refuge. Social services do not require it (as far as I am aware) it is an active choice on the part of the woman who chooses it.

In my experience it has always been a positive choice for the woman who chooses it.

I would say, and there are plenty who would perhaps disagree with me, and I fully expect to be lynched for saying this, as there are many people out there who seemingly seem to assert to understand what being in a refuge is like...although they have never done it themselves...

Being in a refuge is for a woman to be given some space (it is her choice) away from anyone and everyone else aside from her child or children who consider that she does not have the power or the autonomy to make these decisions for herself.

Yes, in the best of refuges, women are offered support but not necessarily from social services unless this is required by law.

I am sorry to have to say this, but personally, I found that the least helpful people on my personal journey were the ones who thought they knew best for myself and my child. Without really knowing or understanding our situation.

I wish the OP all the best for her situation. However I would advise she step back from the situation, trust the refuge, trust the woman in it. Trust the professionals supporting her.

Yes, I totally understand that the mother of the woman in the refuge has her own worries and difficulties but she many need to access professional support for herself.

It is no mean feat going the refuge. No one, including social services forces anyone to do that. It is incredible bravery on the part of the woman who has done that. Well done her.

Anything else will be achieved by giving her some space. Which after all is why it is called a 'refuge'.

Sorry that should read:
Yes, I totally understand that the mother of the woman in the refuge has her own worries and difficulties but she (OP) may need to access professional support for herself to deal with these.

It is no mean feat going to refuge. No one, including social services forces anyone to do that. It is incredible bravery on the part of the woman who has done that. Well done her.

Anything else will be achieved by giving her some space. Which after all is why it is called a 'refuge'.

And grandmother will not be given automatically 'custody' of the child.

If it comes to that, it is up to the family court and the judge to decide.

I am astounded still that some people don't realise that.

Op sounds like as she had contact with him in prison they think she get back with him ... they will remove your grandson if this is the case .. as it's a violent Relationship under the law your grandson can be removed the reason being domestic violence has a negative emotional affect on children.. so its neglect

I wish the OP all the best for her situation. However I would advise she step back from the situation, trust the refuge, trust the woman in it. Trust the professionals supporting her

I think it's a lot easier to trust the woman when she has talked to her abusive ex for 20 hours while he has been in prison!

20 hours contact with someone in prison is really quite a lot, plenty of time to be drawn back into a relationship with him, which would put her and her child at risk. The threshold for removing children is incredibly high so if SW are heading down that route there will be very high levels of concern. I hope she does access the support she needs, for her and her child’s sake.

My comment
I wish the OP all the best for her situation. However I would advise she step back from the situation, trust the refuge, trust the woman in it. Trust the professionals supporting her

Your comment
I think it's a lot easier to trust the woman when she has talked to her abusive ex for 20 hours while he has been in prison!

My comment:

Refuge staff are professionals. They have been around and have seen this scenario before. Enough said.

@beigebrownblue I don't think anyone/many people have said a grandparent would automatically be given custody. Many have said the opposite, that as OP is in temporary housing herself, that might effect whether she would be given guardianship etc.

But of course OP shouldn't necessarily/needn't bring this up with SS unless and until it comes to that.

It's true that someone chooses to go in a refuge I suppose, and that's great. Even better if they then stick with no contact and so on though, especially if their ex is considered very dangerous.

I've been in a hostel for women but I think that's a bit different IDK. There were women who were there because the police had said they needed to do so for their own protection.

20 HOURS 😱

@beigebrownblue

Sorry that should read: Yes, I totally understand that the mother of the woman in the refuge has her own worries and difficulties but she (OP) may need to access professional support for herself to deal with these.

It is no mean feat going to refuge. No one, including social services forces anyone to do that. It is incredible bravery on the part of the woman who has done that. Well done her.

Anything else will be achieved by giving her some space. Which after all is why it is called a 'refuge'.

That tallies with the little I know...not my story so not going into it....BUT from what the OP says the issue here is that OP's daughter does not wish to stay in the refuge...again her choice....but by choosing to leave she is puting her child ar risk. I think, if I have understood correctly, that is the point at which SS have to become involved. I don't think she was forced to go there, and yes a brave decision...i think that remaining there is being suggested to her as a way forward where she can keep her child safe in a way in which living alone in a flat would not.

me4real yes, insightful comments, I feel.

For me the point and the experience is, not many people are familiar with the family court process and many, many relatives understandably allow their feelings to colour their hopes and expectations on this.

It is the family court which decides where a child goes, ultimately. I sincerely hope that in this case the mother child relationship can be repaired, as mine was, and sixteen years on after being in refuge I hope I speak with authority.

There are those who, back then, seemed to regard women who go to refuge as victims without agency. Women can become very strong in refuge., strong for themsleves, and strong for their kids.

As for the 20 hours. Neither here nor there. There are women in nuclear families who stay with their abusive partners and never leave.

Important to support a mother who has made the move. It's difficult. It is courageous beyond measure. I know.

RE: yes that's a tough one. However, the mother is reclaiming agency.
The law is until and unless the state takes over care of her child, she has the right to do so.

It is called parental responsibility.

Abusers do their best to say to mothers they have none. So it is very important for mothers to reclaiim theirs.

As for process of leaving refuge is concerned.

Good to remember, for those who have not been there, there is absolute mountains of paperwork and safeguarding procedures to complete when you ENTER refuge, as for each week when you are there, and before you leave.

It is really not as simple as walking out of the door

that is exactly what I meant to say about trusting the woman. Trusting the support staff, trusting the profressonals.

And respecting the what it says on the tin. It is a refuge, and woman need space. It is what is it there for.

It is difficult enought to find headspace there, to make sensible decisions in consultation with staff without relatives, even well meaning ones, panicking about it and throwing in their own albeit wellmeaning agendas about what it is they think should happen.

Really no offence but hope this is helpful to OP.

OP

I think I remember you from a previous name change, and if you are the same person, then I am not sure you will be considered as the right person for this child.

I think the best thing to do is keep supporting your daughter

At the heart of this is a little boy who needs protection and care.

OP @Littlelegs2 where is his father and his paternal family in all this? Can they help at all, even for a short while until things are more settled.

@beigebrownblue I think if it's a cut and dried thing to say then relatives/friends could impress on a woman how at risk they are in various ways.

A friend of mine had very bad experiences with SS and the family court unfortunately. Her LO is with her brother now but he's not the best person for the job (which genuinely would be her.)

A PP said that SS give mums numerous chances- that is true in a lot of cases I think, but it wasn't her experience.

Services etc aren't always on abused women's side and people shouldn't have implicit faith in them, but get advice from all angles available.

@Littlelegs2 I just thought- your daughter can contact the Freedom Programme herself directly- I did. www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/search2.php They're doing a lot of courses via Zoom. They have contact with a lot of women involved with SS and are very supportive.

Trust the refuge. Really don't think at this point father or paternal father would have a handle on this.

Just comes down to general lack of awareness amongst the population of domestic abuse and what to do, and what not to do.

Trust the refuge. Trust the woman. Trust the professionals. Yes, listen to the woman. But please don't think you know best or try to take over. You are not in her shoes.