Grandson likely to go into care ... im broken

[Littlelegs2]

Daughter was put in refuge . Just a room. On the same day . She got offered a 2 bed temporary flat and she really wanted it. Told her to contact her social worker for advice. I said to Daughter they won't want you to take the 2 bed. Because the refuge is about you getting in house support keeping your son safe etc . This is what they told her . They were advising her to stay there but also saying it was her choice . They explained how her ex is a heigh risk how he's made threats to kill. How he keeps saying he's going to go after her. That he wants to see her son. And then she kept saying you say I have a choice you say its up to me but it's not is it. She was shouting at them . Then they said to her they have to advice her that they are doing a legal planning meeting and they will send her a list of solicitors. I can't get her to understand very basic things. She keeps saying things like. They won't listen to me. They are stopping me having this nice place to live . She agues over everything. I Don't know what to do anymore.

If care proceedings are planned then surely its to late ? She has already said no to the 2 bed flat. So is staying in refuge. Ita how she agues wiry them about how they won't listen to her and they are controlling everything.

@Littlelegs2 They will be used to people mouthing off. Although it can imply she's not really on the same page as services, which can cause them concern.

But the main thing is she really needs to have no contact with the bloke at all. She has been chatting to him and she needs to stop that, as you know. If he calls she needs to hang up immediately. She should block the numbers of any new phones etc he calls on.

She isn't currently proving to social care she is capable of safeguarding her child. She's having contact with the man who puts her child at greatest risk. It's unusual to go to PLO quickly so I'm assuming there has been social care involvement for a while. Their concerns will be around her resuming the relationship and lying about it, because that's what she's done about the contact she's had with him in prison. They do understand the coercion and control of a perpetrator and she doesn't seem strong enough to handle this on her own right now and he's clearly risky, have the recommendation that refuge its the better option.

By staying in the refuge for a while she can engage with support to allow her to make a clean break from him and make the best choices for her child, the child is the focus of this not your daughter whether she likes that or not. Staying in refuge allowed for a robust safety plan and he will not be able to access the building or even know where they are. It doesn't mean she won't get housing later down the line she will remain a priority and when she's in a better place they will help her to secure a place for her and her child.
I worked directly in this area for a long time.

@Littlelegs2 If you are temporary accom, I know it can vary but maybe you won't be in there for long. I was in temporary accom and got a permanent place within 8 weeks. There's only one of me, though.

Sorry to hear this, but I have to say it sounds like your GS will be safer in care if your daughter has already been making contact with this abuser again. It’s hard for her as he will get into her head, but she does have a choice - a choice between him and her son.

It’s hard to understand the full story and I have only read half the thread.

It sounds like SS are worried your Dd will get back with her partner when he returns from prison? They feel she and her son are at risk so they want to keep a close eye on her buy sending her to a refuge? Your dd has been offered a flat and wants to take it and leave the refuge, this would put both her and her son at risk.

You dd needs to do what SS are telling her to do or she risks losing her son, she needs to stop all contact with her partner and concentrate on her son. The refuge is the safest place for her and the only way she can keep her son and access the help she needs. There will be other flats but there won’t be other chances to keep her son

As you are family and your kids are related to her son he can share a room with them if you were to offer to take him. A awful situation to be in because understandably you want to protect them both, if they take her son from her she will be left to go back to her abuser who could potentially kill her. So the best outcome for now would be for her to stay put at the refuge.

It doesn't mean she won't get housing later down the line she will remain a priority and when she's in a better place they will help her to secure a place for her and her child.

@Littlelegs2 KingdomScrolls is right about this. It isn't an either/or, they'll find her housing at the end. You could try and make that clear to her.

@UhtredRagnarson

Does your daughter have any learning difficulties? Is she able to have an advocate with her at the meetings? It doesn’t sound like they are at the stage of removing your grandson yet.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the term ‘Learning Difficulties’ has no bearing on ‘intelligence’. Learning difficulties are specific difficulties in a particular area, such as dyslexia. This doesn’t affect overall cognitive abilities.

A ‘Learning Disability’ is where the cognitive functioning isn’t within the average range.

Again, this isn’t intended to single you out as it is a minefield with the different terminology, but I think it’s important to inform.

She definitely does not understand the bit where they say you have a choice. I know what they mean and so do most on here but she does not get it.

I'm not surprised that she doesn't understand what is meant and is very sensitive to external control when she's in the process of exiting a severely abusive - i.e. Controlling - situation.

Many victims of DV genuinely can't comprehend the notion of choice for a long time. DV takes away your choices and inflicts very severe suffering whenever you try to make choices. It can take years to understand and learn to make choices again after abuse.

For instance, her abuser may have presented her with two "options" but she would have known from previous "punishments" which one she had to do. Now she's got people presenting her with options outside of his system of control it's hard for her to understand how she is supposed to make decisions.

And understandable to be upset about people seemingly presenting her with choices, making a big fuss about how "it's your choice" but also making it very clear that once again only one choice is acceptable because really, does she have a choice if she wants to keep her son like any mother would? No.

Besides which, she's put herself through a lot to exit his control and now the people telling her she needs to leave him because his control is bad are also controlling her life. It is natural she is sensitive and possibly confused by that.

Rather than repeating "it's your choice", which you know she doesn't understand explain it differently. No point repeating something she doesn't understand and that is upsetting her.

"Legally it is your decision. Nobody can force you or make the decision for you. We would like you to stay in the refuge where you can be supported and then you can move into a flat in the future. But if your decision is to leave the support in the refuge now then that will raise concerns and they may take steps to xyz because abc".

If you can understand her perspective a little more it might help you to support her without getting frustrated, which won't be helping matters.

As a grandmother that has been through this and is raising 2 grandchildren.

Do NOT rule yourself out to care due to space. Kinship care recognises the advantage of placing a child with family.

The legal planning meeting is likely to be a PLO meeting. This is a ‘pre removal’ meeting. All different people will be there, including you if your daughter is ok with that. The SW, health visitors, police be asked to attend and the concerns will be discussed. Usually the idea is to give the parent a chance to put things right. For example she may be told ‘you need to stay put for now’.

At the end of the meeting she’ll have an idea of the plan and her responsibilities. In all likelihood your grandson will be placed on a Child In Need plan.

After this then she must adhere to what she’s agreed because it’s a pre legal meeting. So basically the next step is court. Social care cannot remove her child without going to court unless it is a dire emergency. Don’t get me wrong, emergency courts are quick!

They may ask her to sign a section 20 which makes her child a ‘looked after child’.

You/she need proper and fast legal advice. Hers will be free because it’s a child protection case.

I would advise NOT using a local solicitor and certainly not one from the list they will give her. Ridley and Hall specialise in this area and were amazing for me.

Feel free to email me if you want info xxx

Where’s your grandson’s dad’s family? They will have to be considered as part of any plan surely?

I haven't read the full thread and we dont know the full story but from my experience of working in this field, there are huge advantages to being rehoused in a 2 bed flat instead of staying in a hostel with a child. A lot of women find staying in a hostel very hard because they're surrounded by people with multiple concerns and often antisocial behaviour. It is no place for a child to be.
Personally I think CS are failing your DD if they're advising her to stay in the hostel. They need to put a package in place to ensure her safety and that of her DS in the more suitable accommodation, the 2 bed flat. Pushing her to stay in the hostel is an easy way out for CS but not what's best for your DD and her DS.

I wonder if you offered to care for your grandson whether Ss would support you in finding more fitting accommodation for you to both live in.
I feel so sorry for you all. What an awful position for all parties.

@Rachie1973

As a grandmother that has been through this and is raising 2 grandchildren.

Do NOT rule yourself out to care due to space. Kinship care recognises the advantage of placing a child with family.

The legal planning meeting is likely to be a PLO meeting. This is a ‘pre removal’ meeting. All different people will be there, including you if your daughter is ok with that. The SW, health visitors, police be asked to attend and the concerns will be discussed. Usually the idea is to give the parent a chance to put things right. For example she may be told ‘you need to stay put for now’.

At the end of the meeting she’ll have an idea of the plan and her responsibilities. In all likelihood your grandson will be placed on a Child In Need plan.

After this then she must adhere to what she’s agreed because it’s a pre legal meeting. So basically the next step is court. Social care cannot remove her child without going to court unless it is a dire emergency. Don’t get me wrong, emergency courts are quick!

They may ask her to sign a section 20 which makes her child a ‘looked after child’.

You/she need proper and fast legal advice. Hers will be free because it’s a child protection case.

I would advise NOT using a local solicitor and certainly not one from the list they will give her. Ridley and Hall specialise in this area and were amazing for me.

Feel free to email me if you want info xxx

I'm going to pm you

@Mulhollandmagoo

Why can't she take the two bed flat?

Why would SW even offer her a 2-bed flat when they were simultaneously planning to take her child into care? It doesn't add up.

@Littlelegs2 you're such a good support to her. Of course, you'll be worried for her and want to protect them both. This man has a hold on her. She needs to stay somewhere she's safe, where he doesn't know she is and she needs to not speak to anyone who could give him information.
There are numerous consequences to her leaving the refuge. She needs to remember how she felt when he was around, what caused him to go to prison.

I can only imagine how worrying it is that she cannot understand that although she has choices, Choice A is preferred by SS who can work with ger to make sure she keeps her child safe & Choice B is an option but with the huge risk that SS will intervene if her BF makes an appearance. Is your GS at risk...& before everyone jumps on me, yes he is if his Mum is...but is it more likely that violence might be directed at him? If it is, whatever abput risking her own safety, she cannot risk his & should be doing everything she can to prove it to SS. I feel for you OP that your own situation is such that you cannot step in. If she did take the 2 bed housing, could you move in there with SS blessing as support? Could you apply for better housing if SS would support you as his carer? I'm sure you've thought of all the possibilities & options. I understand the dynamic betw DV partners & how hard it is to break away, not first hand personally but I see it in my line of work. Is your DD prepared to put her BF ahead of her child, because that is the crux of it & hopefully she can say No & act on it otherwise she could have a lifetime of regret. That said, the priority is his safety & hard as it will be for you OP if it comes to it, it will count for something to know that he is safe if he is placed into temp care. I really feel your angst & stress, I hope your DD sees sense, co-operates & turns things around.

Why would SW even offer her a 2-bed flat when they were simultaneously planning to take her child into care? It doesn't add up.

I think the council offered this after social work had got her to the refuge? Can understand why it might be confusing for her.

Op i noticed you said she goes the gym at 4 and comes back around 7? What on earth is she doing apart from taking the piss out of you giving her support ?? The gym for an hour every other day yes but 3??
I think you really need to put her in her place, I was 17 and took on 3 children full time and since had 3 of my own and run a business and a family pretty much on my own. I'm just turned 25. Not comparing as some people are young in the head but she needs telling as she is about to loose her son with how she is acting. May be cruel but be blunt with her. Stop sugar coating the situation op.

Can I ask if the refuge is a proper refuge and not just a hostel? Because from my (minimal) understanding, the point with a refuge is that there is actual protection and support as well as just accommodation?
Not only might there be concern about the Mum having contact with her ex, but it might be that the actual physical safety of a refuge is what is considered essential

Was the relationship with ds father also dysfunctional and is there any contact with him or his family now? Were ss involved even before her ex came along? She needs to recognise they need a totally fresh start , practically and emotionally, if there is hope for them to be kept together. Her ds must demonstrably be her first priority. She needs a solicitor as SS will have legal representation to act in the interest of her ds. Hopefully her solicitor would be able to convince her of the gravity of the situation, what is at risk and what she should do,

Have you thought about privately fostering him temporarily?

I don’t know the ins and outs but If you are looking after a child full time that isn’t yours it is classed as privately fostering and you can get money to help towards the costs. I don’t know if your housing would allow it but it means he’ll be with you and she can still come and see him but the SW will know he’s being cared for.

OP, my neice had her first legal planning meeting (public law outline) meeting almost 1yr ago when she was still pregnant, and still has her baby with her. It's just the first steps. They'll outline all the "you need to do X Y Z" if you want to keep your child, and then give her chance (after chance after chance) to do it.

There will be a family group conference of some sort where you'll say you are her support and would like to be assessed for having GS if it came to that. The fact your housing situation isn't great wouldn't be the end of the world, in the assessment the social worker would take through the options of how to resolve that etc.

If anything, the process with my neice has shown me how impossible it is for a child to be removed from parents. My neice hasn't shown up for 3 drug tests, hasn't engaged with support staff, has had police involvement etc and STILL has full custody of her baby. I honestly don't know how much worse she'd have to get before the baby is eventually removed, I dread to imagine.

@theconstantheadache

Op i noticed you said she goes the gym at 4 and comes back around 7? What on earth is she doing apart from taking the piss out of you giving her support ?? The gym for an hour every other day yes but 3?? I think you really need to put her in her place, I was 17 and took on 3 children full time and since had 3 of my own and run a business and a family pretty much on my own. I'm just turned 25. Not comparing as some people are young in the head but she needs telling as she is about to loose her son with how she is acting. May be cruel but be blunt with her. Stop sugar coating the situation op.

I think its because she knows some of the trainers there so she hangs out there a bit . To be honest right now I don't care if she's taking the piss that's the least of my worries. I also do it for gs. It gives him a few hours to play I the garden and play with my younger ones.

What are her feelings now towards her ex?
The assault must have been terrible for him to have been imprisoned for months?
Does she still want to be with him, do you think?