Grandson likely to go into care ... im broken

[Littlelegs2]

Daughter was put in refuge . Just a room. On the same day . She got offered a 2 bed temporary flat and she really wanted it. Told her to contact her social worker for advice. I said to Daughter they won't want you to take the 2 bed. Because the refuge is about you getting in house support keeping your son safe etc . This is what they told her . They were advising her to stay there but also saying it was her choice . They explained how her ex is a heigh risk how he's made threats to kill. How he keeps saying he's going to go after her. That he wants to see her son. And then she kept saying you say I have a choice you say its up to me but it's not is it. She was shouting at them . Then they said to her they have to advice her that they are doing a legal planning meeting and they will send her a list of solicitors. I can't get her to understand very basic things. She keeps saying things like. They won't listen to me. They are stopping me having this nice place to live . She agues over everything. I Don't know what to do anymore.

Her actions are appalling. What the hell is she playing at. Her son should come first. It was a short relationship anyway ffs and he isnt even the father of her child.

@itsgettingwierd

Well, the council cannot magic up a 3 or 4 bed home. If the OP cannot get herself suitable housing then she simply cannot provide what this child needs. I'm very sorry but look at the situation. She's got 3 kids in an overcrowded house, and her older daughter is in this terrible situation and is refusing to out her son first. This guy isnt even the father of the child; it's another guy she was only with for a short time yet she still cant put her child first.

However sad it is for OP and the daughter, the priority needs to be the innocent child who is being seriously failed.

@Littlelegs2 What a very difficult situation for you, your daughter and GS. Reading your thread I've understood:

1. Your daughter experienced severe DV.
2. her partner is in prison due to the DV
3. She is not yet able to fully recognize the abusive relationship and risk this puts her child in.
4. she has a refuge place, but wants to take the offer of a flat from the L.A.
5. SS are saying it's her choice but taking legal steps.

From this, it sounds like care proceeding are planned, the aim of which to keep your GS safe. Your daughter needs to be able demonstrate she can keep him safe, if she can't SS have a statutory obligation to.

The difficulty is that it's clear your daughter has been deeply affected by the abuse, and the behavior you describe is very common in such cases. It can take a lot of support, help even years to recognize the abuse and start to make healthy choices. It's not her fault, she is very traumatized.

You cannot offer a safe haven for her due to your own situation. My advice is do all in your power to convince her to remain in the refuge and work collaboratively with SS. If she can't see this right now then SS can and must remove your GS until such a time she can demonstrate she can act protectively at all times.

The flat is a red herring.

You need to say to her:

“1. Stay away from him at all costs

1. Stay in the refuge
2. Failure to do either or both of these things will cost you your son
3. Forget about the flat for now
4. I can’t practically help you

If you don’t do this, you will lose your son. That is your only choice right now.”

@Littlelegs2 I found a link to the organisation I mentioned earlier frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ They are well known for helping parents, grandparents and extended family members navigate interaction with Children’s Social Care

OP I just had a look at your first MARAC thread and it sounds as though your dd has been let down- for example, she was told she would receive Freedom Programme help and she did not.

I think you need to have strong words with your dd about being honest with SWs and that she really has no "choice" but to not take the 2 bed and to make sure she is protected, but you and she also need to highlight the help she should have received and did not.

@LIZS

Are you sure it is care proceedings and not an intervention to keep child with mother and protected? What is it your dd cannot understand, does she have any additional needs herself? She needs to follow sw advice and not contact ex even third hand.

I really hope that I have it wrong i really do. They said its a legal planning meeting and advised her to get a solicitor. Why would they advice that if they are not planning on taking him.

@baldafrique

Her actions are appalling. What the hell is she playing at. Her son should come first. It was a short relationship anyway ffs and he isnt even the father of her child.

I see you are unaware of coercive control, on the psychology of an abusive relationship, on how low self esteem makes women more vulnerable to the machinations of abusive controlling and violent men. But don’t let that stop you putting forward your opinion.

OP I just had a look at your first MARAC thread and it sounds as though your dd has been let down- for example, she was told she would receive Freedom Programme help and she did not.

I think you need to have strong words with your dd about being honest with SWs and that she really has no "choice" but to not take the 2 bed and to make sure she is protected, but you and she also need to highlight the help she should have received and did not.

@Librariesmakeshhhhappen

So you have multiple young children and you are homeless.

Your daughter has a child and is homeless. She is also willingly in contact with her violent ex despite being told it will cost her her son. They've managed to get her in a refuge, but now she's trying to move into a flat just as her ex gets out of prison and she has been told if she does that then she will lose her son because she cannot be trusted to stay away from her ex. And she still wants to move.

Neither of you sound in the position to provide a safe, suitable and stable home for this boy. Some families just arent suited to have anymore children. It's a horrible fact, but it is a fact. This child needs to be somewhere safe, and right now, that safe place is not within your family.

This seems tough but is based on reality. It seems the OPs daughter may well be very young as OP talks about having an 18 year old. If this is the case then we are possibly talking about an 18 year with a 3 year old child. The OP has a 6 year old with ASD who would find it very difficult to manage having a new traumatised child in their home environment even without the overcrowding. The child needs stability and I am not sure kinship care would provide it at this point. If the OPs daughter did have a child at 15 or 16 with someone no longer on the scene and then got involved in a very serious DV relationship shortly afterwards it does beg the question why she has such a poor relationship model. It may be that it’s not the OPs 18 year old in which case much of this is moot, though I maintain that introducing a child with trauma into the home of a 6 year old with asd os very ill advised

@Unsure33

Oh gosh *@Littlelegs2*. I just read the bit where she had made contact with ex when told not to . Sorry I don’t hold out much hope . They will put safety of the child first. They will do everything they can to try and help but if she ignores them then that’s her fault I am afraid.

But she didnt make contact with the ex.

He made contact with her. The authorities have demonstrated that they are unable to keep her safe from him.

The situation is ridiculous - he gets out of prison and is free to live whereever he likes despite not only assaulting her but also continuing to stalk her, while she has restrictions on where she lives and is blamed when he harasses her.

I feel very sorry for your position @Littlelegs2 but in all honesty it sounds like this baby would be safer away from your daughter . I haven’t read your previous threads but is his father in the picture or his paternal family ?

OP - the legal meeting is likely to be what is called PLO or pre-proceedings. In essence this is last chance saloon, this where SS will clearly set out what needs to happen and change or they will need to issue proceedings (which is when they would seek an interim care order). Your daughter will have a solicitor as will the Local authority. She can turn this around but she needs to do what is asked of her. More importantly though she needs to be motivated to make and sustain these changes.

I read the other threads and this really stood out (not that the rest didn't)

I feel so upset and sad for her and my grandson. I don't understand why she has done this . She was with him for about 9 months . He's not her sons father . So it's not even like it was long term and the violence happend over time. It was all pretty fast.

It's so unfair on your grandson. I also noticed on the other thread that you see him every day. It's really upsetting. She needs to stay away from this man at all costs. I would be as firm as you need to be with her and tell her she will lose her son, his life will be thrown upside down.

@littlelegs2

frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/what/pre-proceedings/

Hi OP I'm just reading through your previous threads now. I supported a family friend through a very similar situation although she was pregnant and the abuser was the baby's father.

It seems to me that although she has messed up by contacting him, she's been let down too, both with no support around the restraining & non-mol orders, and with lack of support around the Freedom Programme. Do you attend the meetings with her? Can you advocate that both of these measures get brought in ASAP, and frame it as support for her to stay with her child and keep him safe?

SS won't want to split them up but ultimately if she chooses to leave the refuge for her ex, then that's what they'll have to do. She knows that, but it sounds like she needs more support to understand fully.

@casade13

Children are best placed with their family so it’s worth asking your daughter to put you forward as a support/ potential carer! SW will be able to advise re housing situation and any support they could provide.

Your daughter needs to seek legal advice but the PLO process will give her a chance to prove that she can protect her child/ display insight into the risk the father poses. This is really the time to work with services. The refuge keyworker should provide intense support while she is there.

It sounds scary but I guess it’s setting out clearly what is expected and if this isn’t achieved then the case would likely go into proceedings so a judge would make decisions about her child’s care!

The OP is currently homeless. The possibility of care of her grandchild being given to her is minimal in this situation.

I have to say that it is absolutely shocking that he has already breached the orders but is still getting out. Absolutely disgusting. The system may not be failing the child here, but it sure is failing the other victim: your daughter.

Where dies the babys father feature in all this? Can his family be considered for placement?

Do you know if he'll be out on license or will there be no monitoring?

@viques
Well obviously. But the needs of the young child are paramount here.

I'm going to try and do a general reply as there are several posts available its hard to reply to all .

I thing is that dd did (not) see him face to face . This was via phone. But of course any form of contact would raise concerns.

She definitely does not understand the bit where they say you have a choice. I know what they mean and so do most on here but she does not get it. As someone else said she needs it blunt.

Does she have learning difficulties. I'm starting to wounder that myself.

I was there when she shouted. It was over the phone. In one day it went like this : here's a refuge dd ok. Packs her stuff and gos . Couple hours later. Email from council we have you a 2 bed temporary accommodation. Dd all excited. Me: you Need to call your social worker and get advice. To see if its OK, but I think they will tell you to stay in the refuge . Because uts not about your accommodation type ie a room vs a 2 bed flat . It's about the support you need. So she calls social worker. She asks for the details of the flat . And says she will talk to another social worker. They call dd and explain that she really should stay in the refuge due to the support it can give and how heigh their concerns are. They then say but the choice is hers.. dd then starts SHOUTING. About how it's not a choice she does not really have a choice they are stopping her being happy. She's trying to do what is right for her and her child by being in a 2 bed flat instead of a room..

Sounds likely that they will be moving towards removal (lots of hoops before then though) because she is continuing to have contact with abusive partner and likely to see him when he is released from prison. Witnessing DV is considered child abuse (due to the psychological harm caused) so even being present in the home when she is harmed would be enough. Sometimes women think that if they haven’t physically hit their child, then it’s okay, but obviously that is not the case.
-My best advice is to advise DD to co-operate

• if she doesn’t or only partially does and SS look like they will be taking steps to take him into care, then contact SS separately, express that you understand that DGS needs to be kept safe from abusive man and that is your first priority, that you would a) have him if LA could house you or b) would like regular contact with his foster carers.

Your grandson's paternal relatives need to step up

Where dies the babys father feature in all this? Can his family be considered for placement?

This. I was in care as a child myself, and have also just helped a close friend whose family member was taken through proceedings, and helped friend to become the child’s legal guardian.

Realistically, you’re not in a position to help; and it doesn’t sound like DD will be able to keep him. Are there any other options? Would the father, or his parents be considerations?