Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

[quote Justa47]@HermioneWeasley

I meant what I said. I think people can change sex with appropriate normal therapies and gender reassignment surgery. So people say you never can. I think that’s wrong.[/quote]
If you have absolute proof that humans can change sex there is a Nobel Prize just waiting for you to pick up. Thinking that they can won't cut it though you actually have to provide evidence - what an amazing challenge you'd be the first person in the entirety of human history to prove something that is biologically and scientifically impossible.

I agree with @ShirleyPhallus too.

I lost a friend because she asked me if I supported trans people and I replied that I absolutely supported their right to live a life free from discrimination and violence. Apparently my reply was too "wishy washy".

So OP, if you are still there, what level of support are you actually looking for? Is not wanting them to face discrimination and hatred enough? Or do we need to ignore reality and subscribe to their belief system (inner gender) too?

Nebbia - given that gender and sex both exist - do you think that gender should override and replace sex in law, policy, sports, support (e.g. for same-sex attracted people), healthcare.... ?
I would say if not, you are gender-critical.

It's a bit of an odd label - I always prefer to look at specific beliefs rather than try and lump them into one label that might/might not identify all beliefs associated with it.

I support the trans community
As do all the women posting on this thread.
and do not agree with the general opinions and attitude surrounding this on Mumsnet
I don't understand what you mean. What opinions? We have all said we are supportive.
I won’t be commenting on this any further,
Well that's convenient.

@shirleyphallus

Couldn't say it better

[quote Orf1abc]@LiberaceTrumpet You're not alone, in the general population you're in the majority. Unfortunately MN is well known for its 'tolerance' of intolerance towards trans women.[/quote]
I suspect you are incorrect on both counts if you started to delve deeper into the evidence.

I meant what I said. I think people can change sex with appropriate normal therapies and gender reassignment surgery. So people say you never can. I think that’s wrong.
What do you mean exactly? Can someone born male change their chromosomes and become pregnant? And what are normal therapies?

I'm absolutely with you @LiberaceTrumpet and you've reminded me that I really need to leave this site for this very reason. The so called feminism boards are obsessed with it, like there's no other feminist issue to even discuss.

@LiberaceTrumpet

Why did you all come here so quickly when I asked you please not to? Are other viewpoints just not allowed on this website?

I know whatever I say you're all going to rip me to shreds - it's bullying behaviour. Can't you see how you're silencing other viewpoints and beliefs on this website?

What are you talking about? There hasn't been a single poster that has come on to day they don't support trans women, infact quite the opposite. I think someone making things up in their own head.

I don't think cis is a very good term. Neither do I particularly like the term gender critical.

I think we need to respect the history of feminism and the rights of women (and the many many centuries of lack of financial and legal parity).

I'm fine with addressing people however they want and going out of my way to respect their choices, but it doesn't take away medical and historical realities.

I would like transpeople to respect feminists and natal women generally as well.

@Nydj

*LiberaceTrumpet Why did you all come here so quickly when I asked you please not to? *

This is kind of how I feel about male bodied people in girls and women’s sex segregated spaces and activities

Good point.

@Ducksarenotmyfriends

I'm absolutely with you *@LiberaceTrumpet* and you've reminded me that I really need to leave this site for this very reason. The so called feminism boards are obsessed with it, like there's no other feminist issue to even discuss.

How can you be reminded of something like that from this post? Surely if you were going to leave, you would have done it what a strange post.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

Oh, right, this mantra (straight fromTwitter) again. Is your feminism intersectional of orthodox Jewish women or Muslim women who cannot use toilet, changing or sleeping facilities which accommodate male people, however they identify, or is it just intersectional of male people?

@Ducksarenotmyfriends

I'm absolutely with you *@LiberaceTrumpet* and you've reminded me that I really need to leave this site for this very reason. The so called feminism boards are obsessed with it, like there's no other feminist issue to even discuss.

Well there aren't many feminist (woman centric, rights based) issues not affected by it, are there? They pretty much all are, and they're major issues for women.

I think that trans women should have exactly the same rights as any other women.

But I can’t be arsed with arguing with people on here so I avoid trans threads.

@orinocosfavoritecake

OP - I agree with you. It’s sad to see gender critical people swamping every thread about trans rights. Mumsnet feels very unwelcoming if you disagree with them.

Has it ever occurred to you that gc people are "swamping" the board because most ppl are gc?

I've just quickly looked through at usernames and it's not the usual set of names that regularly crops up in fwr. Probably cos they're all in fwr or busy cos it's a lovely hot Sunday.

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

This is exactly my view also

@CatherinedeBourgh

I think that trans women should have exactly the same rights as any other women.

But I can’t be arsed with arguing with people on here so I avoid trans threads.

They already do have the exact same rights don't they?

I think that trans women should have exactly the same rights as any other women.
Including the right to compete in women's sports and win medals even if they are twenty years older than the other competitors?

[quote Orf1abc]@LiberaceTrumpet You're not alone, in the general population you're in the majority. Unfortunately MN is well known for its 'tolerance' of intolerance towards trans women.[/quote]
Odd statement given what has been posted here.

And what is actually posted on many of the women's rights threads.

If you could but bring yourself to engage with some of them you'd probably come away with quite a different impression.

But that can't happen if you choose to rely on the opinions you read in places that actively disagree with the basic premise that sex is immutable.

TLDR: Your own bias is showing there!

Why do TW need the support of women?

If trans activists and allies put even half the effort they do into stripping away women's rights in favour of positive campaigning for better services/healthcare etc then they wouldn't need to encroach on female only services/spaces.

I avoid trans rights threads too @CatherinedeBourgh - but half the time a thread in AIBU with a vague title turns out to be yet another gender critical self-congratulatory circle jerk.

The internet is full of echo chambers. Never read too much into what people post online.