Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

I don't relate to feminism that excludes equality for all. I'm not threatened by how people wish to be identified. Transpeople, you are valued.

No one has said transpeople arent value. However it is apparent that your Feminism seeks to exclude women. Not very feminist that really is it.

*valued

@Oneliner

I don't relate to feminism that excludes equality for all. I'm not threatened by how people wish to be identified. Transpeople, you are valued.

Ash bless!

@Oneliner

I don't want engage with all the anger, misrepresentation and misappropriation of feminism on the thread as it only serves to amplify it. The fact that championing equality and young people is challenging to some, gives cause for reflection as to where your anger is really coming from. Again, I'm sending kindness and support to all transpeople. You are valued.

I don't want engage

That's clear. You want to sling mud at women without repercussions, and can't actually make any coherent argument.

'Kindness' and 'equality' are meaningless without engagement in real, grounded, material reality. Otherwise, it's just empty gesture & rhetoric. Anyone can fling noble-sounding words about, but I find it takes a bit of humility, patience and courage to actually work towards solutions.

Keep at it if it makes you feel better, I suppose.

Actually, given that there are 2 transwomen currently engaging in this thread and the one about moving the board, I wonder how they feel about oneliners continued wiff waffery?

Please understand that I am not demanding that they answer that, I'm not a complete pillock, I just want oneliner to have pause for thought. Their own pillockry does transpeople absolutely no favours whatsoever!

@Oneliner

I don't relate to feminism that excludes equality for all. I'm not threatened by how people wish to be identified. Transpeople, you are valued.

You could have just stopped at "I don't relate to feminism"

Trans people are valued. Sex has a material and disproportionate impact on the lives of female people whatever their gender. A system of belief that ignores the second in favour of the first cannot bring equality for all. You are either lying to us about what you really believe, or you are lying to yourself about what equality really means.

A system of belief that ignores the second in favour of the first cannot bring equality for all.

But a system that ignores the first in favour of the second can bring equality?

I don't relate to feminism that excludes equality for all.

That's good then, because gender critical feminism wants equality for all, just not at women's expense. Most TRA activism does not want equality for all as TRA goals require women to lose rights to female only spaces and services. Hope that helps.

Equality is incredibly hard fought for. To call it meaningless negates whatever argument you're trying to put forward to justify limiting the value of transpeople.

And we're back to the squaring of that impossible circle again, it seems.

Transpeople, you are valued.

Again, is there any posters on this thread who disagree bar one who says they no longer support transpeople.

But a system that ignores the first in favour of the second can bring equality?

Sometimes, Blue, as we see, it's a zero sum game. Women are 51% of the population and the harm caused by riding roughshod over the rights of a whole sex class is greater. Third spaces are the only fair solution.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I don't relate to feminism that excludes equality for all.

That's good then, because gender critical feminism wants equality for all, just not at women's expense. Most TRA activism does not want equality for all as TRA goals require women to lose rights to female only spaces and services. Hope that helps.

I honestly think that poster is too blind to be able to see this gaping flaw in their argument. Too convinced of their own moral superiority to notice that no-one think trans people shouldn't be valued. They just don't get to ride roughshod over women's right in the way that they would like to. Male entitlement 101.

@BlueLipstickRocks

A system of belief that ignores the second in favour of the first cannot bring equality for all.

But a system that ignores the first in favour of the second can bring equality?

Given the context do you really want to align your transexual* self with the poster that was a response to, Blue?*

That would surely make much of what you have posted over the last few days moot.

* before anyone rushes to report me I am doing as Blue* has requested, properly recognising her own nomenclature.

@Oneliner

Equality is incredibly hard fought for. To call it meaningless negates whatever argument you're trying to put forward to justify limiting the value of transpeople.

No. I didn't say equality as a concept was meaningless. I said the word alone, with no context or basis in material reality is meaningless.

'limiting the value' - wtf does this even mean? A 2-for-1? An embargo on the price of nonbinary people? Are Stonewall price fixing?

If you perceive this as moral superiority, is that because you recognise on some level at least, that there is a moral deficiency in your own point of view? Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others.

@Oneliner

Equality is incredibly hard fought for. To call it meaningless negates whatever argument you're trying to put forward to justify limiting the value of transpeople.

Who has said it is meaningless?

Who is limiting the 'value' of females and transpeople with their discussion points.

Rash and unfounded generalisations are meaningless though. And your posts do seem to be rich in those.

@Oneliner

If you perceive this as moral superiority, is that because you recognise on some level at least, that there is a moral deficiency in your own point of view? Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others.

No we perceive that you think you have moral superiority which is why you don't bother to carefully read what is said

@Oneliner

If you perceive this as moral superiority, is that because you recognise on some level at least, that there is a moral deficiency in your own point of view? Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others.

I am sorry. I am lost.

Who is now claiming moral superiority other than you and the people claiming to be on the OP's 'side'?

Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others.

yes. Transpeople are valued and are equally valued to others. Transpeople are not more valued than females and female's needs.

Are you really saying that transpeople should be more valued than females? That is what you seem to be implying with your complete lack of engagement and repeating of this like a manta after any person points out how equality actually works....

So, is that what you are intending to convey with your posts?

That female's needs are not to be valued as much as transpeople?

Moral deficiency? Are you the arbiter of everyone's moral status, then? How ever did you arrive at such an exalted position?

I'm only reading a lot of nonsensical prejudice. But, I hope for all those transgender people who might also be reading this thread, they can take some comfort from knowing many people do support and value them.

Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others.
What does this "valued" thing even mean in reality? Sadly, everybody is not equally valued by society, or we wouldn't have homeless people, child abuse, people struggling to feed their kids, etc.
Some people put themselves beyond the pale by their own deviant behaviour, others just fall through the cracks.
Suggesting that donning the mantle of trans makes you automatically a person of intrinsic worth is just nonsense, really...

I'm only reading a lot of nonsensical prejudice

Thats weird…so am i

Equality is incredibly hard fought for.

This is pretty disrespectful too to be fair. The many posters so far that have answered your simplistic mantraing statements have shown that they have an indepth grasp and knowledge of the fight for women's equality. There is literally decades of experience (if you added it up, it would no doubt be centuries) of experience and you are telling us that ....

Equality is incredibly hard fought for.

Please do keep on. Because it has a great enlightening effect on those reading along. Statements like this, really are very informative.