Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

You make perfect sense OutThere and you are right the wilful blindness is very concerning probably because those engaging in it are never likely to be the ones effected by it or the ones picking up the pieces.

Not sure if I'm even making sense but this idea that we need to deny reality, against our will and instincts worries me.

For me it's not about denying reality (after all being born a different sex is kind of a fundamental requirement of being transsexual) but acknowledging that dysphoria and dysmorphia are potentially very debilitating disorders and cannot simply be ignored.
I know my biological sex; I also know that dysmorphia took me down a difficult path of multiple surgeries and dysmorphia fundamentally impacted the person I am. That isn't solved by ""you're all just men".

The worst thing Stonewall did was to turn a psychological disorder into an identity. To use transsexualism and intersex as a trojan horse for "gender identity".

Squash dissenting threads
?

Because I care about women and girls and the pain and hurt they experience , and how that drives young girls towards sterilisation if they don't fit the mould

Because I care about the ability of women and girls to live as a human being equal to others in a society that accepts the concept of a female brain

Because I care about the trans people are who being hurt and excluded by people who supposedly are supportive of them , who feel their trauma is belittled and neglected and commodified

There's a lot of people on here saying I support transwomen and then calling them men. Kind of reads to me like "I'm not racist. White people are more intelligent though."
You can't walk around saying your support the trans community, I'm afraid you're gonna have to own that ugliness you've got inside you.

And why are you so afraid of a transwoman using your bathroom? Do you think they are all predators?? And by your logic you think a transman should be in a ladies room? That makes no sense.

There's a lot of people on here saying I support transwomen and then calling them men. Kind of reads to me like "I'm not racist. White people are more intelligent though."

You need to read it again, then.

@NigellaSeed

There's a lot of people on here saying I support transwomen and then calling them men. Kind of reads to me like "I'm not racist. White people are more intelligent though." You can't walk around saying your support the trans community, I'm afraid you're gonna have to own that ugliness you've got inside you.

And why are you so afraid of a transwoman using your bathroom? Do you think they are all predators?? And by your logic you think a transman should be in a ladies room? That makes no sense.

How about RTFT? Your questions have been answered multiple times.

I support trans people

As far as I can tell the mumsnet FWR version of supporting transwomen is - as long as they stay out of women’s sport, women’s toilets, women’s prisons, brownies, guides, WI, never use the word ‘cis’, accept that they are really male and just make-believing femaleness, accept that they are mentally ill/stupid/ don’t understand The Simple Biological Facts. Oh, and respect Jordan Peterson/Julie Burchill/Hartley-Brewer whichever Daily Mail columnist or alt-right wanker has decided to go in for trans people this week.

Having been part of several conversations on FWR that is exactly how I feel.

It feels like "I'm fine with you being transsexual just so long as you don't behave like a transsexual".

I remember on twitter a few years ago being told by someone they could accept me as transsexual but I need to stop wearing makeup and womens clothes are start dressing as a man. If I could do that I would he transsexual.

@NigellaSeed

There's a lot of people on here saying I support transwomen and then calling them men. Kind of reads to me like "I'm not racist. White people are more intelligent though." You can't walk around saying your support the trans community, I'm afraid you're gonna have to own that ugliness you've got inside you.

And why are you so afraid of a transwoman using your bathroom? Do you think they are all predators?? And by your logic you think a transman should be in a ladies room? That makes no sense.

Stating biological reality is ‘ugliness’

Obviously there’s no need to make people feel uncomfortable but yes we should not be afraid to say you cannot change sex.

Still, we can be respectful of gender differences, without having to say a male is a female and vice versa

I’m very glad that Maya case went ahead and she won. As some are fairly grim, insulting or worse towards anyone stating a biological fact.

Really? You think it would be right to be in a woman's sport or a brownie leader etc?

Isn’t that is.

Thankfully we have a court case overriding this stuff

I don't think transwomen are any more predatory than men. Have you evidence to the contrary?

I support trans people.

@BlueLipstickRocks

Not sure if I'm even making sense but this idea that we need to deny reality, against our will and instincts worries me.

For me it's not about denying reality (after all being born a different sex is kind of a fundamental requirement of being transsexual) but acknowledging that dysphoria and dysmorphia are potentially very debilitating disorders and cannot simply be ignored.
I know my biological sex; I also know that dysmorphia took me down a difficult path of multiple surgeries and dysmorphia fundamentally impacted the person I am. That isn't solved by ""you're all just men".

The worst thing Stonewall did was to turn a psychological disorder into an identity. To use transsexualism and intersex as a trojan horse for "gender identity".

I absolutely agree with you Blue, Stonewall et al have a lot to answer for. I have real compassion for your situation and the way transsexuals have been caught in the crossfire. Stonewall law and their umbrella have created a real issue, and I don't know what the answer is.

I remember on twitter a few years ago being told by someone they could accept me as transsexual but I need to stop wearing makeup and womens clothes are start dressing as a man. If I could do that I would he transsexual.

Surely that’s just some oddball on Twitter which is already a cesspit. Look to the amount of misogyny on there.

And why are you so afraid of a transwoman using your bathroom? Do you think they are all predators??

Because male pattern violence does not change when someone identifies as a woman. The vast majority of transwomen make no meaningful transition and they retain their penis. There is no difference between these transwomen and biological males. Apart from outward presentation, clothes etc. Sometimes.

(I appreciate Blue, as you're here, that you have made a more meaningful and commited transition btw.)

@MarshaBradyo - i wouldn't correctly assume you had XX chromosomes. You could be trans - or intersex, and I wouldn't make any assumptions - not if you're health depended on it.

@midgedude

I don't think transwomen are any more predatory than men. Have you evidence to the contrary?

You go first with the evidence?

[quote NigellaSeed]@MarshaBradyo - i wouldn't correctly assume you had XX chromosomes. You could be trans - or intersex, and I wouldn't make any assumptions - not if you're health depended on it. [/quote]
Do you work in A&E?

I’ll take my chances. I’m really not feeling at risk that people won’t correctly assume I’m XX. What u I f you’re unconscious and can’t say then what are you more worried they’ll get it wrong? I’m really not.

There's evidence of transwomen committing sexually/violent acts, just as there is evidence of men doing so.
The rate of women doing similar is much much less.

I support trans women too

Anyone here not support trans women?

This is mumsnet not a space for you to create an echo chamber

@NigellaSeed

I support women, that include trans and cis. Nothing but love and respect from me

You support women and use the term 'cis'

I'm a woman. No prefix required. Ever.

Not to be nit picky but if you were intersex - there's no way anyone's clocking that you've got testes.