Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

Freedom for everyone to be whatever they want

A fabulous well thought through soundbite right there.
So freedom to rape indiscriminately
Freedom to abuse children,
Freedom to use any women only space at will (ah crap, that already happens)
Freedom to kill,
Freedom to walk around naked anywhere, blah blah add your own freedom
As I say, well thought out.

@NigellaSeed

I support women, that include trans and cis. Nothing but love and respect from me

Thanks, but I would prefer not to be called cis. Misgendering. literally?

Otherwise love and respect back.

MaybeCrazy2 men don’t have to be accepting women have been conditioned to and now we no longer are

And who do we get the push back from - males

@NigellaSeed

I support women, that include trans and cis. Nothing but love and respect from me

I don’t agree with the category but the love and respect part is nice.

Can I ask, if you knew a fair amount of women found ‘cis’ offensive would you avoid using it?

I love that someone said they don't care about males partaking in female sports because they think competitive sport is dumb.

You get some real weirdos on the internet.

@MaybeCrazy2

What gets me is there isn’t the same big push for transmen are men.

I saw on a celebrities thread lots of men not accepting that the transman was not a man and they refused to call him so. Why is there not the same amount of pressure for men to be accepting?

I think there is a difference in the degree of aggression with which the issue is pursued.

I would not like to speculate as to the reasons why.

@ErykahBaddy

I love that someone said they don't care about males partaking in female sports because they think competitive sport is dumb.

You get some real weirdos on the internet.

I said that it’s not an issue I give a damn about for that reason.

There are things I care about more, and I still don’t think they trump anyone’s right to choose who they are.

(For disclosure I'm post op transsexual with GRC)

I appreciate the many posters on this forum that have shown support.

What I would like to comment on however if I may is the idea of supporting "trans" being an all or nothing. Many transsexuals, myself included, have been accused of transphobia!!

To support "transwomen" is to support not just transsexuals but all other identities within the umbrella, most of which are self declared. As someone with a lifetime of struggles with dysphoria and dysmorphia I vehemently oppose self ID and daily see a mockery made of being transsexual.

If someone is trans then as far as I'm concerned you would NEED to have surgery. Most who are happy with "original equipment" are simply gender non confirming.

I urge people who say they support trans to consider what you mean. Do you really mean you support the whole umbrella including self ID? Or do you support those with dysphoria? Or perhaps you support transsexuals?

When you support the whole umbrella you actually support the erasure of transsexuals!

My other issue is this. Whilst I accept that biological sex is immutable, the fact if my birth as male does not mean who I am aligns to what society sees as a male gender role, nor does it mean who I am fits with male stereotypes. To acknowledge I am male far too often leads to a conclusion that this automatically makes me the enemy and makes me no different to any other man. The argument is typically that I was born male, sex is immutable, men are a danger to women, part of a damaging patriarchy therefore that means you are a danger. To grow up as transsexual (and I exclude ROGD and AGP in this) is to be despised by men, abused, sexualised and cast out.

As always I am open to giving a transsexual opinion to any questions either publicly or by PM.

@LiberaceTrumpet

Why did you all come here so quickly when I asked you please not to? Are other viewpoints just not allowed on this website?

I know whatever I say you're all going to rip me to shreds - it's bullying behaviour. Can't you see how you're silencing other viewpoints and beliefs on this website?

How? Aren't you the only one silencing others by asking them not to post?

@sar302

Having an alternative view point and staying it respectfully really isn't bullying...

Thank you!

@Congressdingo

Freedom for everyone to be whatever they want

A fabulous well thought through soundbite right there.
So freedom to rape indiscriminately
Freedom to abuse children,
Freedom to use any women only space at will (ah crap, that already happens)
Freedom to kill,
Freedom to walk around naked anywhere, blah blah add your own freedom
As I say, well thought out.

Freedom to be and freedom to do are not the same.

I support everyone’s right to identity and belief, including the to me distastefully transphobic views held on here.

I don’t support anyone’s right to commit crimes, including transphobic ones.

The debate is about what the law should be, as the definition of a crime depends on that.

There are a thousand and one GC threads on mumsnet. The OP was asking for one measly thread that wasn’t all about GC - and got a GC pile-on.

Support them doing what?

I saw on a celebrities thread lots of men not accepting that the transman was not a man and they refused to call him so. Why is there not the same amount of pressure for men to be accepting?

I have perhaps a different experience on this point to throw in my tuppence worth.

The patriarchy is very real. It's an exclusive boys club of straight men. Despite what many would have you believe we live in a fundamentally sexist, homophobic and transphobic society. Anyone that falls outside the "normality" of the patriarchy is an outcast. No gays, no trans and no women.

I've spoken over the years to so many people who were bullied and abused for being different. A transsexual like myself is a traitor to masculinity, a transman is an imposter.

There are things I care about more, and I still don’t think they trump anyone’s right to choose who they are.

Blithely giving away the rights of vulnerable women. Nice.
So you're not suffering trauma from experience with men. So you're not passionate and competing in a sport. So you're not forbidden by your culture and religion to be alone with men you don't know. So you're not suffering embarrassing medical issues you'd like to deal with in a female only environmental.

I hate the phrase but o think it's needed here:

Check your privilege.

There are a thousand and one GC threads on mumsnet. The OP was asking for one measly thread that wasn’t all about GC - and got a GC pile-on.
Don't be so ingenuous. If that were even remotely true the OP wouldn't have framed the post in a way that accused GC feminists of being anti-trans. If a feminist had said "I only want to speak to feminists not to the bigots who don't believe in biology" then the OP would probably have felt justified in responding, no?

@orinocosfavoritecake

There are a thousand and one GC threads on mumsnet. The OP was asking for one measly thread that wasn’t all about GC - and got a GC pile-on.

There are literally hundred of thousand of MN threads which have nothing to do with trans issues. There are conveniently grouped into topics for OP and anyone else.

But OP isn't interested in any of them. OP wants to hear from people who don't centre natal women, on an FWR thread and wishes to silence those who centre natal women in their feminism. OP doesn't want advice or a debate either. OP just wants to plop and goad. Somehow I don't think OP is exactly genuine.

@orinocosfavoritecake

There are a thousand and one GC threads on mumsnet. The OP was asking for one measly thread that wasn’t all about GC - and got a GC pile-on.

Unfortunately the assumption that GC can’t support trans women led to these answers.

@BlueLipstickRocks

I saw on a celebrities thread lots of men not accepting that the transman was not a man and they refused to call him so. Why is there not the same amount of pressure for men to be accepting?

I have perhaps a different experience on this point to throw in my tuppence worth.

The patriarchy is very real. It's an exclusive boys club of straight men. Despite what many would have you believe we live in a fundamentally sexist, homophobic and transphobic society. Anyone that falls outside the "normality" of the patriarchy is an outcast. No gays, no trans and no women.

I've spoken over the years to so many people who were bullied and abused for being different. A transsexual like myself is a traitor to masculinity, a transman is an imposter.

Good points.

Please report any 'distastefully transphobic' posts that you see, @CatherinedeBourgh.

I support the fundamental human rights of trans people. I believe that trans people should be protected in the law from discrimination, abuse, harrassment, etc. I believe that they should have access to healthcare, education, housing, employment etc in exactly the same way as any other man or woman. I believe that trans people should be able to wear what they want, call themselves what they want, sleep with anyone who consents, live as they please.

However, I do not believe that the rights of trans people to live as they wish to should trump the rights of women or children to enjoy safety, privacy or dignity. I do not believe that single-sex provisions that currently exist within the law and in society generally should be removed or changed.

There are things I care about more, and I still don’t think they trump anyone’s right to choose who they are.
I am a writer. My friend is also a writer and won a prize reserved for women of colour. If I choose also to identify as black (which I am not) and enter the same competition I take it that would be just fine with you?

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

Just adding another voice to agree totally with this.

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

Just adding my voice to say that this is 100% where I stand

@orinocosfavoritecake

There are a thousand and one GC threads on mumsnet. The OP was asking for one measly thread that wasn’t all about GC - and got a GC pile-on.

🙄

I'm pleased to see @BlueLipstickRocks here. I always read her posts as open to debate, kind, respectful and acutely aware of the issues that the current gender ideology raises.

My daughter today said she sometimes wishes she was a boy and had considered transitioning. She dresses in what I would consider to be aligned with what now appears to be a 'non binary uniform' (if you are to believe TikTok) ie boys clothing and a short haircut.

We talked about the reasons why she might be feeling this way, we talked about the fact that you can't identify out of your biology and that it's very very common to feel uncomfortable, unhappy about your body - probably because of sexist gendered expectations about what society expects girls to look like if they want to be 'popular' or accepted by boys/men (whole different conversation which is not needed here).

I also told her that although I do not agree with the fundamentalist dogma surrounding trans ideology, I recognise that her feelings are valid and that I will always love and support her because she is my child and I will do everything I can to be the parent she needs throughout her life, however that might transpire.

How interesting that the Op hasn't mentioned the massive increase in young women wishing to transition.

Why is it only ever about TW?

Anyway, sorry to derail, but nice to see you @BlueLipstickRocks