Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

No problem with transwomen. They are transwomen and deserve their own spaces. Just not at the expense of ours as natal/biological/chromosomal women

@FelicityBeedle

I support trans women and believe that ‘gender critical’ feminists are fear mongering unnecessarily. Trans women are women and are entitled to all the same facilities as AFAB women. Also using gender neutral language when talking about periods, cervices, prostates and genitalia is not an attack.

it's bullying behaviour. Can't you see how you're silencing other viewpoints and beliefs

OP, you've started a thread insulting people and telling those you've insulted not to respond. Can't you see how you're being hypocritical?

I absolutely echo what @ShirleyPhallus has said. I absolutely will not be called a transphobe for having this view. It’s ridiculous that if you are gender critical in any way you are called a transphobe and that it. Funny that no one can explain why they think that’s transphobic.

This is why unisex spaces have been proved to be more dangerous for women. That this has to be explained is frankly worrying.

Yet there is still unisex changing rooms my local council gym has one for people to get undressed for swimming.

@paddingtonbearmeetsdeadpool

Statistically which is more likely - that males commit sexual offences or females commit them? Do you really have no idea?

Does it matter its all evil and destroys lives whether it's a man or woman committing the crime. Women can also be sexual predators. The sentences handed down to pedophiles is disgusting they need longer sentences with thorough mental evaluation.

May I ask, what do you think of paedophiles being given shorter sentences because they are trans?

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/why-paedophiles-love-the-gender-revolution

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

👆🏼 100% agree.

Yet there is still unisex changing rooms my local council gym has one for people to get undressed for swimming.
Yes, there are still a lot of unisex changing rooms - in fact they are increasing in number. That doesn't change the fact that they are more dangerous for women. Maybe you should ask yourself why that is?

Also using gender neutral language when talking about periods, cervices, prostates and genitalia is not an attack.
"Inclusive" language is actually difficult for a lot of women to understand especially if English is a second language for them. But who cares if women miss out on important health checks, right? As long as we are "inclusive".

I have never seen men referred to as people with prostates -this "inclusive" language is always for women to accept not men. Again, ask yourself why.

extract

"A couple of years ago it was revealed that one in 50 male prisoners identify as women, four times the figure in the general population, which led to theorising that some male prisoners were simply saying they identified as a woman in the hope they could receive certain privileges, potentially even a transfer to a women’s prison or an early release from jail altogether.

"April 2021 taught us that it’s surprising the figure is only one in 50.

"In that month alone, at least three separate UK trials took place involving child abusers, in which the defendant claimed they now identify as a woman, and that this identity means they should receive a lesser sentence, or even none at all.

"Incredibly, in two of the three trials, the judge agreed."

Here is one of those three from www.wiltshire999s.co.uk/transitioning-child-rapist-who-breached-order-spared-jail-over-prison-safety-concerns/

A child rapist who has repeatedly breached the conditions of court orders has been spared an immediate jail sentence due to ‘prison safety concerns’.

28-year-old Alex Smith, who is transitioning from male to female and is formally known as Matthew Burren, appeared before Swindon Magistrates’ Court for sentencing after admitting breaching her Sexual Harm Prevention Order (SHPO) in March.

The judge said:
“I’m not going to send you to prison today, and the reason for that is because you have very very complicated issues. You’re currently undergoing gender reassignment… I would be very concerned about your safety.

“You are very very very vulnerable. That’s the only reason I am not sending you to prison. If you were not vulnerable, I would probably send you to prison."

@paddingtonbearmeetsdeadpool

This is why unisex spaces have been proved to be more dangerous for women. That this has to be explained is frankly worrying.

Yet there is still unisex changing rooms my local council gym has one for people to get undressed for swimming.

It's not a problem to offer unisex changing rooms for those who want them. As long as there is also provision for those who don't.

May I ask, what do you think of paedophiles being given shorter sentences because they are trans?

Someone said to me once that our criminal justice system is the worst in the world but it's the best you're gonna get. After reading that article how depressing is that.

Do you think we should just abolish all sex-segregation in society?

I really think this is what some people want without thinking through the consequences. A gender segregated society means that no safeguards can be put in place. It would be impossible. A sex segregated society means that we can go some way to protecting women and children. Why on earth would anyone want to remove these safeguards. Unless they have an agenda that is.

It's not a problem to offer unisex changing rooms for those who want them. As long as there is also provision for those who don't.

They have changing room cubicles luckily.

'Support' is perhaps the wrong word. I think that some people are trans; it is not a matter of ideology. Probably some people say they're trans when they're not, just as some people say that they're allergic, autistic, clinically depressed, clever, or suffering from the flu when they're not! But this doesn't mean that being trans doesn't exist, and I think that trans people have enough to contend with, without having to deal with others being ideologically hostile to them.

Out of (genuine) interest - how do GC feminists propose "biological males" are prevented from accessing women's spaces? A quick check under the skirt before people are allowed to enter the loo? Women carrying certificates or sex passports? I know many trans people who just use the women's loo/changing room and who very easily "pass" visually..some of the older trans friends I speak to have been accessing single sex spaces for decades without ever being "challenged".

Similarly for a refuge place, confirmation of being a biological woman is not required and never has been...

@Erikrie

Do you think we should just abolish all sex-segregation in society?

I really think this is what some people want without thinking through the consequences. A gender segregated society means that no safeguards can be put in place. It would be impossible. A sex segregated society means that we can go some way to protecting women and children. Why on earth would anyone want to remove these safeguards. Unless they have an agenda that is.

I think many foolishly think that removing all sex based segregation would be the same noble cause as removing racial segregation. It just seems on the very face of it to be a lovely fluffy thing to do. Oh aren't we all equal anyway, let's just do away with all this nonsense. Men and women are equal!

Men and women are equal. They are not, however, the same.

Kindlynow

Are you saying that if we introduced third spaces, and clarified across the country that women's spaces were women-only, that your friends would ignore the signage?

Out of (genuine) interest - how do GC feminists propose "biological males" are prevented from accessing women's spaces?
This comes up again and again. The onus has to be on males to stay out and for women to be supported in their single-sex spaces. So if I see a male going into a female changing room, I am allowed to challenge this (either directly or asking management to remove him) without being called a transphobe. I don't know how old you are but this worked literally for decades until recent ideology took hold - and by and large women left TW who were just trying to pass into their spaces but we must always have the chance to say no.

Similarly for a refuge place, confirmation of being a biological woman is not required and never has been...

At the refuge I have links with, it's women only. Sure a male might possibly pass convincingly as a woman. If they were discovered they were not they would be asked to leave. It's a woman only service.

@paddingtonbearmeetsdeadpool

This is why unisex spaces have been proved to be more dangerous for women. That this has to be explained is frankly worrying.

Yet there is still unisex changing rooms my local council gym has one for people to get undressed for swimming.

Unisex open plan changing rooms? As per the "old school" swimming pool changing rooms?

Or unisex cubicles that lock?

There's a big difference.

My swimming pool has a "changing village" and unisex showers and loos...but they're all enclosed and lockable spaces.

The older pool has sex segregated open plan changing rooms.

Also my sister's has a changing village, but sex degree showers as they are semi-open ...ie. cubicles without doors.

@Kindlynow

Out of (genuine) interest - how do GC feminists propose "biological males" are prevented from accessing women's spaces? A quick check under the skirt before people are allowed to enter the loo? Women carrying certificates or sex passports? I know many trans people who just use the women's loo/changing room and who very easily "pass" visually..some of the older trans friends I speak to have been accessing single sex spaces for decades without ever being "challenged".

Similarly for a refuge place, confirmation of being a biological woman is not required and never has been...

We can't. This is often put forward as a reason why we shouldn't bother fighting at all.

It doesn't wash. For one, we have to resist self-ID. If only the most committed and genuine transwomen prove to society that they can hold a GRC then I can accept a tiny minority of the population using toilets of the opposite sex if they have proven that they are truly living this way and following stringent requirements. The requirements for obtaining such a certificate must remain stringent.

If we allow self-ID, we are fucked. That is the quickest way to give the green light to the Jessica Yanivs of the world. Abuse will follow. It already is.

Are you saying that if we introduced third spaces, and clarified across the country that women's spaces were women-only, that your friends would ignore the signage

Looks like it. What a surprise. not

My council swimming pool has mixed sex with an open space and cubicles. The cubicles have gaps top and bottom. My kids refuse to use it now, as do I. We found a pool that does have single sex facilities.

@Kindlynow

Out of (genuine) interest - how do GC feminists propose "biological males" are prevented from accessing women's spaces? A quick check under the skirt before people are allowed to enter the loo? Women carrying certificates or sex passports? I know many trans people who just use the women's loo/changing room and who very easily "pass" visually..some of the older trans friends I speak to have been accessing single sex spaces for decades without ever being "challenged".

Similarly for a refuge place, confirmation of being a biological woman is not required and never has been...

How have women countered men being in their single sex spaces in the past?

Why would it be different? They are males, however they identify. The issue is at the moment, women are told they are hateful for wanting single sex toilets.

Not only that, but surely you would not be implying that a transwoman would not respect the boundaries of females and would come in anyway knowing that they should not? Are you saying that? That transwomen will ignore the boundaries of other groups that are vulnerable groups in society if they choose to?

My local pool has old-style male/female changing rooms and showers - completely open no cubicles.Who knows maybe one day I will meet my student who transitioned to female a little while ago, I'm sure that won't be awkward for either of us.