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Original poster

Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

999 replies

LiberaceTrumpet · 13/06/2021 14:19

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

OP posts:
CardinalLolzy · 13/06/2021 15:52

Yes, but I think competitive sports s a pretty stupid and male centric thing anyway so it’s no big loss to me if they lose all interest.

Absolutely. The most important thing is that people shouldn't be able to do things that Catherine doesn't like. Isn't that what we're all arguing, fundraising, campaigning for, after all?

orinocosfavoritecake · 13/06/2021 15:53

CardinalLolzy

Sure, but the posts about parking/weddings usually have clear titles. While most of the trans threads are called things like ‘AIBU to be shocked that...’

PattyPan · 13/06/2021 15:53

I support trans people and think they can call themselves whatever they want, use whatever pronouns, dress however etc. They should be able to express themselves and live a life with dignity and free of the fear of discrimination and violence.
But I also think that sex is a biological fact that can’t be fully changed. Transwomen will never be female. Don’t get me wrong, I feel sorry for trans people that this is the case. But this is reality and therefore certain sex-based provisions must remain in terms of sport, certain single-sex spaces etc.
Also I think language that reduces people to body parts/processes is dehumanising and isn’t the way to be inclusive.

Clarice99 · 13/06/2021 15:53

@orinocosfavoritecake

Yes! Ducksarenotmyfriends. There isn’t a feminist board - there’s only an anti-trans rights campaigning board. It’s depressing.
What utter nonsense.

Go over to the Feminist section and there's nothing 'anti trans' about it.

Pro women DOES NOT equal anti trans.

This thread is a clear demonstration that women, GC women are supportive of trans women.

Lonel · 13/06/2021 15:54

Yes, but I think competitive sports s a pretty stupid and male centric thing anyway so it’s no big loss to me if they lose all interest.
So female sports are "male centric"? Confused And anything that doesn't interest you doesn't matter? What a profoundly selfish attitude.

Staffy1 · 13/06/2021 15:54

[quote orinocosfavoritecake]@RedDogsBed

Why interesting?

Oh God, you’re not playing the ‘poster supporting trans rights must be a man’ game, are you?[/quote]
That would mean everyone commenting on this thread is a man as I haven't seen any posts saying they don't support trans rights (so long as they don't crush other groups rights).

CatherinedeBourgh · 13/06/2021 15:54

@CardinalLolzy

Yes, but I think competitive sports s a pretty stupid and male centric thing anyway so it’s no big loss to me if they lose all interest.

Absolutely. The most important thing is that people shouldn't be able to do things that Catherine doesn't like. Isn't that what we're all arguing, fundraising, campaigning for, after all?

No, those of us who support trans women’s rights to be women are campaigning for freedom.
NebbiaZanzare · 13/06/2021 15:54

@CardinalLolzy

Nebbia - given that gender and sex both exist - do you think that gender should override and replace sex in law, policy, sports, support (e.g. for same-sex attracted people), healthcare.... ? I would say if not, you are gender-critical.

It's a bit of an odd label - I always prefer to look at specific beliefs rather than try and lump them into one label that might/might not identify all beliefs associated with it.

No I think sex over rides gender in all those areas.

I'm going to have to go and read some more about what gender critical is, cos somewhere along the line it looks like I've got the wrong end of the stick.

RedDogsBeg · 13/06/2021 15:55

[quote orinocosfavoritecake]@RedDogsBed

Why interesting?

Oh God, you’re not playing the ‘poster supporting trans rights must be a man’ game, are you?[/quote]
Sorry to disappoint but no I am not playing that game, merely an observation that it was an interesting phrase to use, make of that what you will.

Stompythedinosaur · 13/06/2021 15:55

I believe trans-women are women and trans-men are men.

Having been on mn for many years is saddens me that amount of anti-trans sentiment I see. I hate that mn is perceived (with justification) as a hub of prejudice.

I'm old enough to remember how bigoted people used to speak about gas people. My dm talks clearly about how people used to talk about women in her youth. In both cases people would have argued that their prejudice was supported by "biological facts", such as procreation requiring a heterosexual couple, or women having a smaller brain size.

Stompythedinosaur · 13/06/2021 15:55

*gay people

Helleofabore · 13/06/2021 15:55

half the time a thread in AIBU with a vague title turns out to be yet another gender critical self-congratulatory circle jerk.

The hyperbole on this thread is entertaining anyway OP, thanks for that.

#iagreewithShirleyPhallus

CardinalLolzy · 13/06/2021 15:55

No, those of us who support trans women’s rights to be women are campaigning for freedom.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement and find it really succinctly clarifies the whole issue. Freedom for everyone! Miniature rainbow flags for some!

MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 13/06/2021 15:56

I support trans women, the ones who transition as far as theyre able to.
I don't support transwomen who plonk a wig on and declare themselves trans in order to get a better time of things in prison. Or to use it as a way to get access to female spaces.

I dont support transwomen who seem to think they can change biology and use it as a way to claim transphobia.

But other than that trans women can crack on......I figure if theyve gone the whole hog of hormone treatments, hair removal etc they can share my hand washing space in the loos.

Lonel · 13/06/2021 15:57

No, those of us who support trans women’s rights to be women are campaigning for freedom.
Let me guess - you also voted for Brexit?

GromblesOfGrimbledon · 13/06/2021 15:57

@Stompythedinosaur

I believe trans-women are women and trans-men are men.

Having been on mn for many years is saddens me that amount of anti-trans sentiment I see. I hate that mn is perceived (with justification) as a hub of prejudice.

I'm old enough to remember how bigoted people used to speak about gas people. My dm talks clearly about how people used to talk about women in her youth. In both cases people would have argued that their prejudice was supported by "biological facts", such as procreation requiring a heterosexual couple, or women having a smaller brain size.

It saddens me that people think the only way to support trans people is to assert wholeheartedly that TWAW and TMAM.

Simplistic thinking in the extreme.

CatherinedeBourgh · 13/06/2021 15:57

@Stompythedinosaur

I believe trans-women are women and trans-men are men.

Having been on mn for many years is saddens me that amount of anti-trans sentiment I see. I hate that mn is perceived (with justification) as a hub of prejudice.

I'm old enough to remember how bigoted people used to speak about gas people. My dm talks clearly about how people used to talk about women in her youth. In both cases people would have argued that their prejudice was supported by "biological facts", such as procreation requiring a heterosexual couple, or women having a smaller brain size.

This.
CardinalLolzy · 13/06/2021 15:57

@Stompythedinosaur

I believe trans-women are women and trans-men are men.

Having been on mn for many years is saddens me that amount of anti-trans sentiment I see. I hate that mn is perceived (with justification) as a hub of prejudice.

I'm old enough to remember how bigoted people used to speak about gas people. My dm talks clearly about how people used to talk about women in her youth. In both cases people would have argued that their prejudice was supported by "biological facts", such as procreation requiring a heterosexual couple, or women having a smaller brain size.

I remember when people used to support gay people for being same-sex attracted. Now they are told they are bigots. Do you think sexual attraction can be determined by sex?
Parasol345 · 13/06/2021 15:57

A lot of the conversations on this board are held about trans women, without trans women - I think that’s not ok. There is too much scaremongering.

It smacks of “I’m not transphobic, but…”

katrina11 · 13/06/2021 15:57

This reply has been deleted

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DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 13/06/2021 15:58

I'm with you op.

Even the threads with parents asking for help turn into grown adults asking about the toilet habits of young kids. It's really weird and creepy, yet those people can't see it at all.

I do occasionally get involved in the trans threads and have been called allsorts, including a racist, oddly enough. I asked tonnes of questions, probably 5 of them got answered.

Those people want to live in an echo chamber. However if you say one thing that doesn't align with their views they start with their #nodebate. The irony is actually hilarious.

I also find it pretty patronising when they post "I have put this in AIBU instead of feminism because I have decided you need to know about these things" then they all start patting each other on the back for bringing their one sided views to us stupid people.

Then there are the links, the same probably 10 links and pictures on every fucking thread, reeled out like they are brand new information. "A trans person did something bad once - link". Nae bother sweetie, it's not like there aren't millions of awful people everywhere Hmm uts a million times worse if a trans person does something though. God forbid.

Quite pathetic really. I guess they all need a bandwagon to jump on so they feel part of something.

TheNinny · 13/06/2021 15:58

Well... the majority of women don’t want to see the erosion of women’s rights. Mumsnet provides a platform to highlight the places where this is happening, the fastest being from the trans movement( re. TW). Sorry if you feel alone but that would be because the majority of women are not ok with this happening.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 13/06/2021 15:58

In both cases people would have argued that their prejudice was supported by "biological facts", such as procreation requiring a heterosexual couple, or women having a smaller brain size.

Procreation requires a male and a female. Female brains are also generally smaller than males, as the female skull is smaller.
You seem confused.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 13/06/2021 15:58

[quote CatherinedeBourgh]@ErykahBaddy

I believe they should be indistinguishable from any other women in the eyes of the law, and that should be protected.[/quote]
Okay.

Well, in that case, they wouldn't be entitled to prostate screening on the NHS. Also, being women in a time of austerity, they should be treated like any other women would be by the NHS, which means that no matter how dissatisfied they are with their natural breast cup size, breast implants wouldn't be covered by the NHS.

Cosmetic facial surgery also shouldn't be covered, surely?

I'm not sure British transwomen will thank you for this support...

RedDogsBeg · 13/06/2021 15:59

No, those of us who support trans women’s rights to be women are campaigning for freedom

Freedom from what or to do what?