Kicked out of childcare again. 2yo. Desperate for help.

[BeyondHopee]

My son was with a childminder for five months, never settled, cried all day to go home so they gave us notice. We started him in a nursery, same situation, four months later and they've given us notice. What do I do? Keep trying different settings? I've missed so much work picking him up all the time it's a miracle I still have a job. If I have to go through all the settling in half days again, and miss more work, I probably won't. I can't afford to quit my job and be at home with him, I love my job and I don't want to lose it. What do I do? Has anyone experienced this? I just don't think he will be happy anywhere but home, but he has to be somewhere

Sounds very stressful. My DD cried the whole day the first time I left her at nursery and you could tell the staff were a bit worried! But she did settle the following day once she’d clocked I was coming back. All I can think is keep taking him to new experiences-swimming, the beach, maybe organise some play dates at other children’s houses or with them at the park so he gets used to other children with you there. He is very young still and lockdown won’t have helped but it’s frustrating when you have to work and you see all the other children trotting in happily to nursery so you have my sympathies. Good luck

@SoSadAboutMyDad

I’m of a view that a child that upset about going to nursery isn’t ready to go to nursery. I honestly don’t think that 2 year olds should be in nursery. They are babies and need their mum. I would do whatever it took to manage on one wage or get a job on the days DH was at home. It’s not natural to leave your children screaming for you and must cause damage. No job is more important than your child.

I thought government research said before 2 nursery was detrimental but after 2 it was beneficial. This fits with young children's development, they start playing alongside others and small interactions around 2 years, like handing each other toys. Personally I think they are best at home pre- 2, but that's not necessarily practical. And Op's child is over 2 yrs.

Some of the other posters have beaten me to it with the suggestion of a visual schedule.

It would be great to try these when you’re out at the park or shops too. In the park you could have a picture of the gate, the duck pond, a flowerbed, a swing, a goalpost, the gate, and home (or whatever distinguishable landmarks you can find in the order that you will see them). Refer to them as you go. “Here’s the gate. What’s next on our list?” And if he asks for home, refer to the list “we need to find the goal post, and the gate, and THEN we go home.” It’s crucial to follow through because it will help break the link between crying and getting to go home.

You can do the same at the shop. Trolley, clean hands, bananas, bread, milk, cereal, cash register, car, trolley, car, home. You do need to be disciplined not to squeeze in extra things on your list at least for the first few times.

The novelty will probably be great the first couple of times but he will eventually test the boundaries and it’s super important to be clear, kind and consistent. If he cries you can sympathise and cuddle, but return to the list and go through the steps.

It can feel cruel to force the issue but you are relieving him of a huge burden if you can break the connection between crying and getting mum/home. Imagine how exhausting it must be for him and it’s far too much control and responsibility for a two year old. Helping him to learn that the adults have it in hand, and he can relax safely, is what he needs.

I did this kind of thing with my ds before we knew he had autism and also used some of these techniques with my nt dd because they’re really great with any dc who can’t talk yet. It helps break things down into manageable and predictable steps.

I was also told that ds didn’t have asd at 2, but it turned out that what they really meant was that they didn’t have the diagnostic tools for that age. That’s not to say your ds is on the spectrum. But you can borrow techniques and see if they help.

Before ds was diagnosed I found these books really helpful
The Out of Sync Child
Raising your Spirited Child
Sensational Kids

It doesn't sound a good nursery if they asked you to take him away. This should be their bread and butter getting children to settle when distressed.

What techniques have they tried? Have they worked with you on this? Or was it just an out and out take him away?

I'd try another nursery and see what they suggest when you've explained the circumstances.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

I’m of a view that a child that upset about going to nursery isn’t ready to go to nursery. I honestly don’t think that 2 year olds should be in nursery. They are babies and need their mum. I would do whatever it took to manage on one wage or get a job on the days DH was at home. It’s not natural to leave your children screaming for you and must cause damage. No job is more important than your child.

I do get what you're saying. I'm in a similar position about whether to resign and stay with my baby and school child after may leave. Heart says hand my resignation in and head says work. What worries me is if my DH, the one earner loses his job (especially in recent times with businesses being on their arses) then the family is really up shit creek without a paddle. Unfortunately just staying home isn't that simple.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

I’m of a view that a child that upset about going to nursery isn’t ready to go to nursery. I honestly don’t think that 2 year olds should be in nursery. They are babies and need their mum. I would do whatever it took to manage on one wage or get a job on the days DH was at home. It’s not natural to leave your children screaming for you and must cause damage. No job is more important than your child.

Some of us don't get a choice. I split with DDs dad when she was 2,. years old, she'd been in Nursery over a year by that point but had I not had a job she'd have gone once I got one. Only one highly sought after Childminder around here so it was basically Nursery or nothing for us.

Saying that I don't think a Nursery should put up with a crying child constantly, but would be interested to know what strategies they've tried. It took a while for DDs Nursery to find what works, and she stayed there until she went to school, she did really struggle in reception at school and I thought they'd kick her out but she thrived in year 1.

My DD has some additional needs, not autism though.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I would sign him up to more than one establishment. It’s always going to be less racing on the nursery/childminder if a difficult child has less hours there. Then start the child on a small amount of time initially and very slowly stretch it out. There has to be MASSIVE rewards for good behaviour (not crying at nursery) and disappointment for poor behaviour (mummy feels sad etc).

Honestly you’re going to have to really push the boat out to reward the good behaviour. Exciting toys. Days out etc. Made sure you praise, praise, praise.

I think you can turn this around if you keep at it.

I’m as horrified as various other posters at people suggesting he’s manipulative, that his emotions aren’t real etc. He’s crying all day every day he’s away because it really is that traumatic for him! He’s suffering as much as you would be if you were experiencing something that made you feel that miserable all day. His emotions are real.

Also horrified at this suggestion, no regard for the child’s well-being whatsoever. Making him even more unsettled, not giving him opportunities to actually form attachments with specific caregivers, emotionally manipulating (and yes, THIS actually is manipulation) him by ‘punishing’ his sadness.

This is honestly one of the most disturbing threads I’ve read in a while. I do feel for you OP, but the only suggestions that sound viable are giving it one more go with a different childminder, and if that doesn’t work either quitting your job or taking out a loan for a nanny.

I'm sorry OP this sounds so stressful. But honestly a 2 year old is not being manipulative.
You need to try and find a nursery with an excellent staffing ratio, where I used to work we had over the legally required staffing ratio, so we had enough time to give one to one attention to the little ones who were finding it hard to settle. This was in addition to the one to one support for children with additional needs. If you can't find this could you work in the evening and at weekends so your partner can look after your toddler

I had one like this. I was genuinely terrified we would go bankrupt because I had to go so, so slowly at settling into nursery (and then do it all again with the transition to school). I learnt to knit through the endless settling sessions

@Jellycatspyjamas has good suggestions.

Picking up on your point about your DS asking to go home while you're out and about, after a long time I realised with mine that they weren't precisely asking to go home right then - they were checking that we would be going home again in the end. So a simple visual picture timetable in your pocket that you can keep looking at whenever he asks, can be very effective. Also, leaving something half-done when you go out (such as a puzzle or a game) means you can say "we'll finish that together when we get home again" which is reassuring for little minds, and you can mention it while you're out "we're going to finish feeding the ducks, have an ice cream, and then when we get home you can finish your puzzle while I cook our tea".

If you go for a photo book include one at the park or at Nan’s house, with friends, maybe the toys at nursery, anything other than home*

That would be included. Anything over the course of the week from morning to bedtime.

@MutteringDarkly

I had one like this. I was genuinely terrified we would go bankrupt because I had to go so, so slowly at settling into nursery (and then do it all again with the transition to school). I learnt to knit through the endless settling sessions

@Jellycatspyjamas has good suggestions.

Picking up on your point about your DS asking to go home while you're out and about, after a long time I realised with mine that they weren't precisely asking to go home right then - they were checking that we would be going home again in the end. So a simple visual picture timetable in your pocket that you can keep looking at whenever he asks, can be very effective. Also, leaving something half-done when you go out (such as a puzzle or a game) means you can say "we'll finish that together when we get home again" which is reassuring for little minds, and you can mention it while you're out "we're going to finish feeding the ducks, have an ice cream, and then when we get home you can finish your puzzle while I cook our tea".

This sounds like really good advice to me

Oh OP this sounds so tough. I have two children with ASD and although we didn't have any problems with the childcare settings, my younger DS can find days out quite anxious experiences but he is non verbal so can't tell us.

Points on visual timetables so they know what is coming, reassurance that we will be going home (we use now and next a lot) are great suggestions above.

We had other issues in childcare due to my DC'S SEN and almost pulled them out several times. Luckily their nursery was amazing and made adjustments for them.

Hi, as a childminder , I only ever gave notice to be family where sadly the child never settled and screamed non stop in a temper all day long. They were with me 10 hour days 4 days a a week after 4 months I had lost a stone in weight , was stressed out and nearly signed off off with stress so gave notice. It turned out parents were never honest with me and he was held permanently at home, carried everywhere , slept with them. I could never off offered that kind of care with other children to care for. However other un settled children I have managed to find ways of calming them down, e.g. one loved to just sit in a little baby seat, and watch the others play, they would then get in and out when they wanted too to walk about, get a toy etc, if they got really distressed I would pop them in the seat and they calmed down almost straight away. It was almost like there safe place.

He would settle with s childminder/nursery if he went everyday. Then it becomes routine. He may not understand one day he is home then next nursery etc.

Hey OP. You've had lots of good advice already (although also some awful heartbreaking stuff), so I don't have anything new to add.

I just wanted to reiterate that you haven't done anything wrong and your lovely child hasn't done anything wrong either.

I hope you can work something out. My eldest had shades of this (although less intense than yours). As he's grown older I've been better able to appreciate that all the things that make him sensitive and thoughtful and insightful and persistent are the same things that have often made him bloody hard going; and as soon as I had my second child, who is an entirely different kettle of fish, I was able to let go of so much negative self-talk about what I'd 'got wrong' with DC1. He was fine and I was good enough, and also it was much harder work than average!

One of the things I sometimes think about my DC1 is that he's a bit of a canary in the mine, he knows when something's not really good enough and he can't pretend it is. And as a much older child I'm working a bit on supporting him to see the positives more, and at the same time I'm trying to learn from his perceptions because he does often have a point! Where i wonder if this is relevant to you is that tbh a lot of childcare - whether nursery or childminder - is actually pretty shit. I think we lose sight of that with children like my DC2 who tends to do pretty nicely regardless, but children like yours and like my DC1 can force us to confront it. I wouldn't give up on childcare settings because two have given up on you and him. I think it's entirely possible that's about them and not about your DS at all. I appreciate that in a rural area your options are going to be finite, but I really hope you can find - probably a childminder - with whom your child can be content. Working motherhood is hard enough at the best of times.

They're in the wrong job if they can't handle and they're not prepared to pacify a frettful baby or toddler. Revelation for them: Babies and Toddlers cry.
Nursery Nursing isn't just all about singing nursery rhymes and playing with adorable babies and cute funny toddlers all day.

I think I'd start looking for another setting. There must be more in your area or close to where you work.
I'd also be honest with them at least then you'll know where you stand.
If they say something like "Oh well if they don't settle after a month we kick them out sorry. You know its not the nursery for you or him.

Bribery bribery bribery

With him but include your husband AND child care provider.

You all need to be on the same plan. Short sentences ie. bye darling, I need to go so I have time to pick up your after nursery treat.

Childcare provider ignoring the negative, MASSIVELY over praising any tiny positives, with promise of treat. Only mentioned for the good, don't even say the word treat when he is acting negatively don't use the treat as a negative threat only remind after positives.

Over praise the small improvements

It's kind of super nanny plus dog training (sorry don't mean that to be rude)

You all need to be united and agree to talk calmly and in short sentences. This means he doesn't get attention from the negative.

All his negative reactions should end up being really boring for him (no adults should be dramatic or pander or give any EXTRA attention) check him with regularly with 'oh dear, still upset, we'll stay there and rest while we play, I'll check on you soon) said non-chalont

Worth a try 🤞

Poor OP. Of course you need to work and you have done nothing wrong. Providing for your babies materially is a huge part of being a good parent.

I second PPs who have said to find a new nursery (a bigger setting rather than a childminder would be better imo, because the carers have other carers to swap with when trying to settle the child) and tell them frankly about the issues you have had. Our daycare would have laughed (gently and kindly!) at the suggestion that we would need to pick up a crying child early, let alone expelling them!

Things that worked for us:

• H drops off to daycare even if that means a longer day - the separation from Dad was easier than from Mum.
• Finding out the schedule so that they could start with fewer children in the room, so more attention in the handover period; handing them directly to a carer then leaving quickly.
• No less than 3 days a week.
• Talking about our own day as well as theirs - Mummy’s going to work, I’ll see my work friend Mary, I’ll go to a meeting, have my lunch and then come and pick you up. DS was worried we were sad all day at work which made him more unhappy, poor lamb.

Bloody hell the slagging off of nursery staff and childminders on here is depressing.

Something you said up thread interests me...you say there are periods where he is settled and will interact with them. That's not the same as a child crying all day, that means he can be distracted.

So the question is what is upsetting him again? It's often transitions with our children (in fact its always transitions) so once again, visuals, fair warning and simple language to help him understand what is happening.

Do they offer free flow? If a child is very upset getting outside is often the best solution, a change of environment, fresh air, new toys...

These are questions for any new setting.

I managed to get hold of a nursery yesterday afternoon with space who said they were more than happy to try, they said they've never had a child not settle in 18 years so hopefully he won't be the first. We're going for a gradual transition like suggested here, we're popping by this morning and every morning this week just to see how it goes. I'm full of dread but trying to hide it so he doesn't pick up on it.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

I’m of a view that a child that upset about going to nursery isn’t ready to go to nursery. I honestly don’t think that 2 year olds should be in nursery. They are babies and need their mum. I would do whatever it took to manage on one wage or get a job on the days DH was at home. It’s not natural to leave your children screaming for you and must cause damage. No job is more important than your child.

This is spectacularly unhelpful, the OP has a job she loves and needs financially. I've been a SAHM for the vast majority of my children's lives, but with my youngest I went back to work when he was 6mo. He was the happiest baby and is a very securely attached little boy. Everyone's lives are different, please don't judge other women or guilt trip them like this.

@BeyondHopee

I managed to get hold of a nursery yesterday afternoon with space who said they were more than happy to try, they said they've never had a child not settle in 18 years so hopefully he won't be the first. We're going for a gradual transition like suggested here, we're popping by this morning and every morning this week just to see how it goes. I'm full of dread but trying to hide it so he doesn't pick up on it.

Good luck :)

Good luck @BeyondHopee , I’m sure you will find somewhere eventually and hopefully this one will be it .

It's hard OP and I bet you're not the only one whose child is having some kind of separation anxiety. This past year has been tough with little ones not getting the socialisation they normally would.

I agree with PP who say ask what strategies nurseries use with SEN children (or adopted children) to help make them feel secure and form a bond with a key worker.