Kicked out of childcare again. 2yo. Desperate for help.

[BeyondHopee]

My son was with a childminder for five months, never settled, cried all day to go home so they gave us notice. We started him in a nursery, same situation, four months later and they've given us notice. What do I do? Keep trying different settings? I've missed so much work picking him up all the time it's a miracle I still have a job. If I have to go through all the settling in half days again, and miss more work, I probably won't. I can't afford to quit my job and be at home with him, I love my job and I don't want to lose it. What do I do? Has anyone experienced this? I just don't think he will be happy anywhere but home, but he has to be somewhere

A few thoughts...

Nurseries are not all the same. DD2 always seemed very sad at her first pre-school, just very quiet and withdrawn. One day I drove past and saw the children playing in the garden at the front and I saw her just looking very lost and forlorn. Decided to try somewhere else after that, and she was much , much happier. It's not even necessarily a bad reflection on the first place - some children were clearly happy there, just not dd2.

He's very little, but he is probably still big enough to pick up on any signals you are sending him. So you have to try to be cheerful and positive about nursery rather than somehow sending the message that it's an awful and scary place to be. Not to say you should ignore his feelings, but somehow try not to amplify them. or pass on your worries to him.

Try to reassure him that you will always come back: "Daddy's going to work now. Let's say bye bye. He'll be back at tea time" and talking about the fact that one of you is not there now, but will come back later.

Books about school/pre-school. My children liked a Topsy and Tim one and another called Spider School. Talking about things you can do there, the routine of the day and so on.

Bugger! Quoted the wrong post. Sorry user1471523870 was trying to quote OP saying no one would suggest her husband gave up work.

@BeyondHopee there will be a solution, you don’t have to give up work. Xx

A nursery really isn’t going to be able to cope with a child who still cries for most of the day after 4 months. It’s not fair on the child, the staff or the other children. They are usually brilliant at dealing with tears on separation and a few throughout the day but if it’s most of the day I think you just have to accept that it isn’t working. I feel very sorry for you but sometimes our children just aren’t quite what we expected and don’t conform to what we envisaged.

@bookh

Sometimes it's just about finding the right one for him.

Friends son the same, two childminders before age two. I wouldn't have be,I even it if I had not see the emails because he's a perfectly pleasant little boy. They said they were simply unable to cope with the crying and advised her to seek additional help for him.

Third childminder, never looked back. She's read the discharge emails and can't believe they are about the same child. Something was bothering him, guess we will never know what.

Yes, never underestimate the importance of the right setting. If possible look for a nursery with a good mixture of staff ages and look at the ofsted report to see what staff turnover is like. Usually in this situation a child will attach to a keyworker so a good keyworker is important. I used to let a child I was settling stay with me where possible until they built their confidence. Sometimes it is better to sit quietly next to an upset child and start playing and they will often watch then join in. Sometimes if we fuss they get more upset.

I think he gets that we're coming back, every morning he says daddy go work, bye bye daddy etc. If he asks for daddy in the day, I say he's at work remember, and he'll say daddy work. When we drive to the nursery we say mummy and daddy work today, and he'll cry and say no work, no work. I think he gets that we come back.

He doesn't have any sort of comfort toy, not for lack of trying! He never took to soft toys, dummy's, anything. We put the same one in his cot with him every night but he doesn't touch it.

We talked about his childminder a lot, showed photos of her and the other kids throughout the week, he'd point and say there names, if we said shall we go to her house he'd say yes and be excited and then fall apart in the car. We talked about nursery a lot too and would mention his key worker etc but still he was sad when he realised that's where we were going and would say mummy home, no work, home. It's so tough.

He's come on so much with his speech lately, is putting 4 or 5 words together, is really starting to communicate with us which is amazing as he's only just two but it hasn't really helped, he can just clearly say he wants to go home now!

Seeing your update about hime getting tearful when away from home... maybe that's the root of all this? I guess one approach would be to try and get out every day even if just for a walk or to the park. Obviously, if it can be something fun that would be nice but even low key things could help. Quick play in the park or with a ball, "feeding the ducks", having an ice-cream, walk to go and see some animals or diggers or whatever he likes. Just so he realises that nice things can and do happen away from home.

@BeyondHopee

I don't have professional qualifications that's why I'm so against giving up my job. I've worked my way up and got really lucky to get a promotion a few months ago and if I quit I won't get back in at the same level. No one would suggest DH quits, I keep getting told to be a stay at home mum but my job and my mental health is a factor here too. I struggled with maternity leave, I live away from family and friends and was so isolated, I finally have a job I enjoy with a great team and I'm in a better place. I need to find a plan that doesn't involve me giving that up.

I completely agree that you shouldn't give up your job OP. You can't give up your job just because your 2 year old son doesn't like being outside of his house!

There must be some nurseries who would be able to deal with something like this - as others have said, are there any local ones who take SEN children, as even though he isn't SEN they will have more coping methods and strategies to handle his distress.

I would call round a few and explain your situation, see what they say.

I would definitely not give up your job as it's clearly so important to you and you will be losing a lot in the long run for the sake of managing the couple more years before your son starts school.

Do you think he has a sensory issue? Asking because he gets overwhelmed in places like shopping centres even when you are there. I think maybe all the noise and stimulation of nursery or a business childminder might be just too much for him?

Do you do 'social stories' with him? It's a technique developed for children with autism or similar primarily, but it's really useful for little kids regardless. You do a lot of talking and preparing for common daily scenarios, talking about what happens and exactly what we should do - you do it when they're calm and playing, not at the time it's going to happen.

This would be REALLY useful if you are moving house. You need to do a lot of prep work with him about what's happening, what will happen in the new house, where his toys will be and where Mummy & Daddy will sleep etc.

One of my children is the same age, and whilst she's fine in childcare, she also asks to come home almost as soon as we get somewhere. Home really has become their security with lockdown.

You can encourage, you can give new experiences but you can't force your child to be something that they aren't. And he just doesn't sound ready for that sort of childcare yet. Given how his life has been in lockdown, I don't blame him.

He doesn't seem to get overwhelmed in public, just he will ask to go home and cry a bit, he can often be distracted and snap out of it but he will always ask for home. If he gets tired, or falls over etc he will cry to go home. It doesn't seem to be affected by how busy, quiet, loud, empty somewhere might be if that makes sense. He can be distracted. Even at the childminders and at nursery there are moments where he gets distracted and will play nicely, it's not that he can't be happy in these places as he can at times. He is definitely a sensitive little boy, I was (and am) much the same. My mum said I cried a lot at pre school but back then they just left you get on with it. I don't know it's all so crap. The house move week after next is going to be a nightmare.

Not trying to downplay it, he is upset for hours on hours and sometimes whole days. I'm just explaining there are periods of time where he will be ok and happy and interactive with them.

@ADialgaAteMyDog

How much settling in were you able to do at nursery? As in, start off with just an hour then two, then a morning, then pick up after lunch etc? It's a bit onerous but may help if longer sessions are slowly built up. Does he have any little friends or cousins in a setting that he could join?

This.

I’m a pre school teacher. This type of thing isn’t that uncommon and is best dealt with by breaking him in very gradually, even as little as half an hour to start with and then build it up. From a staff point of view, a child who is unsettled can be very disruptive for the group as a whole and can mean that a member of staff is effectively taken up doing 1:1 if it’s really bad. Harsh as it sounds, that’s not workable in most settings. Definitely try the very gradual settling in. Good luck.

OP, I have a son who is autistic and whilst k not suggesting at all that your boy is on the spectrum (in fact I’m wondering why everything seems to be about autism these days) I’m wondering if the following could help. I would do it for my son decades ago as it seemed like a good idea and it worked really well - it’s a visual time table.

I’d get a big scrap book and some pictures or cut outs to represent morning, something like the sun coming up, him getting out of bed, washing and getting dressed, breakfast, going in the car, a picture of his nursery, things to represent what he’d do in nursery - break time etc, then something to represent when you or dad will collect him, the journey home and the tea and bedtime routine.

Obviously it would have to be pretty basic because of his age but you’d still be able to do it so that there are no surprises in his day and that he doesn’t get up in the morning thinking he’s at home that day. He’d also learn that you will be coming back to nursery for him.

It’s even something nursery could do for him on a board and each part of the day could be removed or rubbed out till he can see going home is all that’s left.

It can also be done with real photographs in an old fashioned kind of photograph album.

Again I’m not suggesting your son is autistic but this helped my son leading up to our holidays when he didn’t understand days and counting sleeps and he’d be really stressed out waiting to go on holidays that were his holidays doing exactly what he wanted to do (steam trains) wherever he wanted to see them.

He is 2. I think you need to accept he is very sensitive and separation is hard- this is age and stage behaviour and the level of sensitivity depends on the child.

I think he needs a break from childcare, not "taught he can't manipulate, not given into etc' which have been infered by some.

Sounds like you and your DH current working patterns won't work with him not being at childcare. My sympathies. Can you do your job outwith office hours?Can DH? Would your employer give you an unpaid sabbatical perhaps or reduced hours to job share and work round DH?

I know it's unpaid but you have a right to 'Parental Leave' (up to 4 weeks a year, a maximum of 18 weeks total). Could you use this to ensure he gets really settled in a nursery with a really slow staggering in. You wouldn't lose your job completely then.

Some things are genetic and there will be extremes on both ends. My DD is the opposite of yours. 20 minutes of settling in because she didn't care if I was there or not. I don't say that to be mean but just that it's not something you're 'doing' it's bone deep. He's a slow-approach child and mine is fast-approach. It's a very stable and consistent trait in children from close to birth. You can't change a slow-approach child into a fast-approach one.

With lockdown it will have really suited him because he gets the environment he craves, home. Can you try an in-home nanny on a trial basis? One of the students. Just see if care at home suits. I had a nanny share at her home (because my child doesn't care where she is) and it worked well. Would a nanny share be affordable? Then ask the childcare people you know if they know anyone.

My son hated collective childcare at that age. It was horrendous so I sympathise.

I have three children and all 3 had problems settling at childcare at this age.

All three are fine now, no attachment or anxiety issues aged 16, 14 and 12.

You can't change a slow-approach child into a fast-approach one.

This is very true, and very wise, MrsTP. I have also heard it described as if some children need a "longer run-up". They'll all fly eventually, but for some the take-off strip just needs to be much longer.

Strong attachment isn't the same as secure. Can you work on connecting and engaging more on your days with him. It's drastic times so drastic measures. Can you co sleep if you don't already?

Are there more things you can say yes to during your days together to help him feel more empowered.

Sorry if I missed how old he is but perhaps you could introduce meditation / calming techniques. I know nothing can help right now but I hope you find a solution going forward!

@MaBroon21

OP, I have a son who is autistic and whilst k not suggesting at all that your boy is on the spectrum (in fact I’m wondering why everything seems to be about autism these days) I’m wondering if the following could help. I would do it for my son decades ago as it seemed like a good idea and it worked really well - it’s a visual time table.

I’d get a big scrap book and some pictures or cut outs to represent morning, something like the sun coming up, him getting out of bed, washing and getting dressed, breakfast, going in the car, a picture of his nursery, things to represent what he’d do in nursery - break time etc, then something to represent when you or dad will collect him, the journey home and the tea and bedtime routine.

Obviously it would have to be pretty basic because of his age but you’d still be able to do it so that there are no surprises in his day and that he doesn’t get up in the morning thinking he’s at home that day. He’d also learn that you will be coming back to nursery for him.

It’s even something nursery could do for him on a board and each part of the day could be removed or rubbed out till he can see going home is all that’s left.

It can also be done with real photographs in an old fashioned kind of photograph album.

Again I’m not suggesting your son is autistic but this helped my son leading up to our holidays when he didn’t understand days and counting sleeps and he’d be really stressed out waiting to go on holidays that were his holidays doing exactly what he wanted to do (steam trains) wherever he wanted to see them.

Things like this also helped my daughter, she also had a photo book of family.

We do spend almost all our time at home. The occasional shopping trip and I drag him out for a walk or to the park once a day but never for long. I will try being out the house more. Will try a photo book too. Thanks for suggestions. Trying to mention everything that's been mentioned and missing some but I have read everything and thanks for so many ideas.

I know you said you can't afford a nanny but in all likelihood it will only be one year and if you were to try again in a year's time, it might be different. Mine were much better at 3.5 than at 2.5. Perhaps dipping into savings or taking a mortgage holiday might be worth the long term investment versus the stress of carrying on with something that he clearly finds stressful or you giving up your job which would have significant and long term impacts to your lifelong earning earning potential.

Sending you a huge huge hug.

oh that just sounds so hard. So many good ideas here, I hope something helps.

We live next door to a preschool - we share a fence with their outside space so we see and hear a lot of little kids struggling with this. Usually they settle down very quickly and it's just a few days. There's one little boy who just breaks his heart at the moment for at least an hour after every drop off and it's been going on for at least a month. The staff are all just so good with him, comforting him, helping him play, reading to him, really trying to find ways to help - he just wails for his mummy the whole time. But last week I noticed he only cried for about 10 minutes. And today he didn't cry at all and he was toddling around playing with the toys. (I realise this sounds like I am a toddler stalker but they really are so so close to our house, we can hear everything!)