Kicked out of childcare again. 2yo. Desperate for help.

[BeyondHopee]

My son was with a childminder for five months, never settled, cried all day to go home so they gave us notice. We started him in a nursery, same situation, four months later and they've given us notice. What do I do? Keep trying different settings? I've missed so much work picking him up all the time it's a miracle I still have a job. If I have to go through all the settling in half days again, and miss more work, I probably won't. I can't afford to quit my job and be at home with him, I love my job and I don't want to lose it. What do I do? Has anyone experienced this? I just don't think he will be happy anywhere but home, but he has to be somewhere

@ivfgottwins

Would this be too cruel....asking a family friend to take him for a day or two.....he cries himself out and starts to learn no amount of crying gets him sent home?

Do NOT do this. It makes children clingier. Secure attachment builds confidence. If you don’t return he won’t know next time if you will or won’t and will cling harder. Please never do this.

Poor boy this is awful. I don’t agree for a minute he is manipulative or “clever” he is a 2 year old whose been thrust into a busy nursery with, I’m assuming he’s in a 2 year old room, a ratio of 1:4 after spending the majority of his life in lockdown.
Of course he smiles with his arms out when he sees his mother; that’s not manipulative! He has been crying because he wants his mum and then he sees his mum so will obviously be happy and smile. He is 2.

Something has to give OP, your son needs to feel secure.
Either change jobs; if you’ve worked hard to get where you are I’m guessing you have professional qualifications and they will still be there in a year or so. Look into a part time job in the evenings so he is with his parents during the day and night for a while. You can build up his social skills by taking him to playgroups, play centres, parks etc which will help him get used to being in busy scenarios with others whilst still having the security of mum being there.
This isn’t just normal tears on drop off if they’ve given notice.
Another option is to really go through your finances to see what you can drop for a nanny or an au-pair.
I hope you find a solution for him.

This thread has been insightful as Dd 2 suffered with very similar issues at around that age. She had a lovely key worker at her pre-school who would scoop her up and cuddle her when distressed. Keep trying.

Unfortunately like PP it didn’t really improve with starting school. The first school were awfully unsupportive, the head would physically pull Dd off me, whilst she was screaming it was that bad. We’ve since moved her and things have improved, I’ve pushed to get her tested this term, I suspect ADHD. We still have battles with going to school particularly after half terms/holidays.

One thing I would say is, don’t give up advocating for him. You may need to go private to get the answers you need. The other point is if you go down the nanny route, make sure they’re ofsted registered. Depending on your level of income you may be able to get certain benefits to help with childcare costs.

Child psychologist? If you’re prepared to pay privately there’ll be options in your nearest city. Probably worth some play therapy to deal with his separation anxiety.

I had exactly this issue, with a 3 year old asked to leave independent school nursery and day nursery at work at the point of asking him to leave. Issues carries on with school starting. A lot better now several years on but still can be triggered. Due to suspected underlying ASD in my case, although no formal diagnosis due to CV delays on top of an already very stretched system.

It’s not easy and I really resented the suggestion that I should give up my job.

@ivfgottwins yes that is too cruel.... Teach your child that no matter how much they cry and need you, you won’t be there for them.

I think you need to quit your job and put parenting first even though there a huge sacrifice for you personally and the family financially. For whatever reason he is not happy in the childcare options available to you. This is very unusual but seems to be the way he is for whatever reason.

I think you need to start taking him to some groups so he can start to socialise and interact whilst you're there and build some confidence in new situations.

You have to put his well-being first. That's being a parent.

I think it's very harmful that he's so distressed for long periods. You need to put a stop to that before he really does have issues.

I do wonder how many of the parents would be happy for their dc to cry all day ?

Op do you have chance to take him to groups/ mixing with other children? Try and increase this.

Let new childcare provider know what helps him settle. I have looked after some it can be a favourite toy, cudfles, Tv, or simply distraction.

Are drop offs quick

My ds cried every single day at nursery when left, although did settle- i found once i reset my mindset to he was going to be happy he settled easier- now probably quite tricky in your situation but it made a difference.

I think it is also worth getting back in touch with Hv re seperation difficulty.

My ds had it. He started having a sure start worker in my house. He couldn't cope if he couldn't see me, eventuall y was able to leave the room...

This is not an appropriate situation to bring an au pair into. Experienced childcare professionals are struggling to placate the child, an au pair is not going to be able to cope, and nor should they be expected to.

I'd second the suggestion of consulting a child psychologist. Also look for a child minder with a low number of children. If you're only working part time, you might be able to find someone who is semi retired, or just has their own children at home.

You must be emotionally shattered, its nothing you have done but lockdown has caused different problems for different people, he has spent over a year being kept away from people outside, especially in the 'one hour outside a day' at the beginning, just when he was becoming aware of others outside his family. I wouldnt be surprised if we start to hear of more and more children struggling in this age range.
I would consider, if i was you, if you go for another nursery to see if your mum will help for the first few weeks, and you drop him to her, and get her to take him as he seems to accept that you are going if left with her. The big issue is he has now time sense so cant tell if he is there for an hour or a week or eternity, one of mine used to take my library card in her pocket as it was 'very important and mummy needs it' so she knew i would be back for it.
another thing might be to go on your local facebook type site, and see if any childminders are willing to come to you and bring their own child? or a nanny share with someone at your house? Or ask if anyone who has had similar issues found a particular nursery/child minder who had that firm and consistent but gentle approach he needs.
if you go for a new nursery, see if one member of staff who might be his keyworker would be prepared to come to your house to build a relationship up over a couple of afternoons, before his settling in sessions. i am not even sure if this is allowed with covid and child protection, but i am sure a sympathetic nursery would have a few ideas up their sleeve, he isnt the first and wont be the last, it just feels like it for you!

I don't have professional qualifications that's why I'm so against giving up my job. I've worked my way up and got really lucky to get a promotion a few months ago and if I quit I won't get back in at the same level. No one would suggest DH quits, I keep getting told to be a stay at home mum but my job and my mental health is a factor here too. I struggled with maternity leave, I live away from family and friends and was so isolated, I finally have a job I enjoy with a great team and I'm in a better place. I need to find a plan that doesn't involve me giving that up.

No solutions here, however I have a two year old myself, who goes to nursery full time Mon-Fri. 95% of the time he's happy to go and waives bye-bye from the door. The only times he's reluctant is when he spends a prolonged amount of time with us (holidays, long breaks, illness).
I am a bit surprised nursery calls you to pick him up vs trying different techniques/suggesting how to make him settle better.

If I was you I would change nursery and try to adjust my schedule for few consecutive days in every week.

I’m sorry but your son has to come first. You’re a parent now, he only has you and his dad. So yes, I’ll suggest either your or his dad give up work and give this poor little boy some stability and security for a while and get him used to socialising before he is sent to yet another new childcare setting in less than 18 months.

There's no need to pathologize normal behaviour. He doesn't need a child psychologist, he isn't emotionally ready to be away from his mother all day. That's not abnormal. And he is distressed, not being manipulative.

The thing that helped DS both at night and doing two hours a morning at nursery, was being given a teddy, and taking it slowly. You need to sit with him for a few weeks while he plays with the other children, and gradually let him find his feet.

Thank you for other suggestions, I will look into everything I can. Appreciate it.

We originally has DS in nursery mon, wed and Thursday. When we switched to tues-Thursday he seemed to settle much better. 3 full days. We drop off and collect about the same time regardless of what else is happening. Might help?

have you actually crunched the numbers for a nanny? We have a nanny and as she's ofsted registered we can benefit from the tax free childcare so it doesn't work out hugely more expensive than nurseries round here. Obviously you can't use the 30 free hours when they turn 3 but hopefully by then he might feel more confident? Maybe phone some nanny agencies and see what the going rates are in your area, if they have anyone on their books that springs to mind when you explain your situation?

I was a childminder for 10 years. In my experience the best settling in strategy for him would be to understand that developing attachment to other people is ok. This has been difficult in lockdown.

If I was looking after him, I would follow this technique, it's not something I found in a book, it's something that has worked for me along the way.

The CM or nursery worker has to be on her/his own with your child to start off with. Put down on the floor, when he starts crying, pick up, give him a cuddle, reassure him. Put down again and try to distract. He will inevitably cry again, or louder, so pick up again, another cuddle, another reassuring hug, put down. Eventually, the child comes to trust that if he cries, the childminder WILL give him a cuddle and reassure him. It takes time, hours sometimes, days, and a lot of patience. But it works.

It's a bit like the pick up/put down method in some books about sleep.

The key is to develop a long term attachment with the new person where your DS can find comfort and know that someone will pick him up if he is upset.

If you’re both unwilling to do that then do as @Bluntness100 suggested and take a loan for a nanny.
Your son needs a solution that puts him and his needs first.

It’s crap that neither of you earn enough to afford one but you’re going to have to find other ways to fund it.

When DD went to nursery the staff told me that children find it easier to adjust and settle if they go full time rather than part time, as then they're not constantly readjusting, and it becomes part of their routine. Easier for them to form friendships with the other children too (though that's less relevant at 2 years old) which also helps with settling.

I also agree it's easier if it's three consecutive days.

Some kids will never settle and forcing it makes them worse. My niece was a clingy baby, sent to nursery at 10 months and didn’t settle. Then a different nursery at 2 and never settled. A third one at 4 and hated it. Hated the first three years of school. Now in year 9 and cries at the start of every term. My SIL was determined never to “give in” and now has a stressed and anxious teen with night terrors and stress induced tics. Honestly I think taking a year or two off work would have been a better choice. As someone said above, you have to parent the child you have and respond to their needs. Your LO needs to be at home until he’s older.

I would try another child minder but with a gentle settling in period. (My Dd cried constantly at nursery initially but was very happy with cm - finding the right care is so important). I also read Dd the book “owl babies” which is all about mummy going away and the babies reacting differently but mummy always comes back. We read that a lot! Also with a 2 year old, talk very clearly with no ambiguity. Tell dc where you are (at work) and he’s going to have fun with our friend Julie (childminder made up name) you’ll see him before tea time. Be matter of fact when meeting cm with dc. Be honest with cm. Get him to help pack his morning bag - what are you going to take to “Julie’s” today. Why don’t we make a picture for “Julie” - she’s so excited to see you today etc. Talk about the new cm lots so the name is totally familiar and he sees her as mummy’s friend. Good luck!

@DarlingWithoutYou

The nursery should be ashamed of themselves.

Find a new one, explain what's been happening and that you know he's manipulating and really need them to keep him all day.

I'm sorry you're going through this. DS went through something similar around 2 and nursery would tell me he screamed til he was sick in the morning, but perked up in the afternoon. They never once called me and were totally unphased by it! It's their job!

The nursery should not be ashamed at all! What nonsense! They have acted professionally in my opinion, because they’ve put the child first. They recognised this child was not going to settle and was very distressed. For whatever reasons they knew he wasn’t in the right environment for him. So they have been totally honest with the parents. It’s not “their job” to pretend everything is hunky dory and allow a child to continue being so distressed day in day out.

I absolutely would suggest that your husband quit, if you were the higher earner and he brought in very little. As it is, it sounds like from a finance perspective if one of you were to quit, it would have to be you.

I do get that it's not what you'd want (so if juggling hours, flexible working for both of you etc it can be avoided, great), but the first duty if both of you is to your child, and I don't think it's fair in him to continue being so upset.

He's spend literally a third of his life trying and failing to settle in childcare, and being distraught. Such prolonged stress on him really worries me.

It's got nothing to do with nursery giving notice tbh. I'm kind of seeing that as irrelevant. It's not a case of 'where can he go that will endure it' but finding somewhere he can be happy. And if that's not childcare, then what choice do you guys really have to either quit work (one of you), or shuffle round hours etc? You can't leave him distressed indefinitely.

I really feel for you OP, my son was exactly the same, both at pre school and starting school. It was an absolute nightmare. I ended up picking him up every day and eventually attending pre school with him! He was the same starting school too, and it turned very quickly into school refusal. My DS is autistic and what you are saying sounds very like his behaviours, so it's worth bearing in mind.

The only thing that helped my DS is time (he is five and at the end of Y1 and he's only been going in happily for a few months). We did change his school and that did help, but I really think it was a developmental thing and he just wasn't ready before. Which I know is no help to you right now.

Also he isn't manipulating anyone, he's too little for that. When you leave he's very sad so he cries, then when you come back he's relieved and happy so he waves and smiles. Nobody would scream for four hours to get their own way, they can barely focus on a jigsaw puzzle for ten minutes at that age!

One thing I realised with my DS is that he didn't understand what was happening, who the other people were, who were children and who were adults, so he felt totally abandoned. When we started telling him explicitly "Helen in the blue t-shirt is a grown up. If you feel sad Helen can help you. If you need help then ask Helen." that did ease his distress.

I hope you find something that works for your little one.