Kicked out of childcare again. 2yo. Desperate for help.

[BeyondHopee]

My son was with a childminder for five months, never settled, cried all day to go home so they gave us notice. We started him in a nursery, same situation, four months later and they've given us notice. What do I do? Keep trying different settings? I've missed so much work picking him up all the time it's a miracle I still have a job. If I have to go through all the settling in half days again, and miss more work, I probably won't. I can't afford to quit my job and be at home with him, I love my job and I don't want to lose it. What do I do? Has anyone experienced this? I just don't think he will be happy anywhere but home, but he has to be somewhere

Early intervention assessed him at 23 months and had no concerns whatsoever, the health visitor had no concerns, from everything we've read online about autism we have no concerns. It's literally just that he doesn't like being away from home/us. Is that that big a red flag I need to keep nagging for him to be referred again? Genuine question? I've been more of the mindset that lockdown has had a big impact on him as he's not used to other kids or other places more so than autism or the like

When we started nursery we kept at two days and recently moved up to three. I keep waiting for it to just click but it isn't

Given he’s so distressed I doubt it’ll just click for him, he’s too upset to take in new information so won’t be able to adjust to his surroundings etc. You’re not doing anything wrong, I think you’ll find it’s an accumulation of the way this year or so has been.

@INeedNewShoes

I've been in a similar situation but fortunately I am self-employed so could just work in the evenings/nights in between childcare settings when I had to move DD.

She started with a highly recommended childminder at 8 months and never really settled. I gave notice when it became clear that the situation was upsetting everyone - my DD, the CM, the CM's other children and me. Very stressful. Childminder still thinks DD is a problem child or something, years down the line!

I then put DD in a nursery and at first things were pretty good. Then she moved up a room and just looked like a rabbit in headlights at every drop off and they were rarely going outside even on nice days and eventually my conscience won out and I took her out of that nursery.

Third time lucky for us - DD has been at her current nursery for over 18m and is happy. They keep the children busy with engaging activities and they spend tons of time outside. The staff are energetic and enthusiastic. It is just such a warm environment and the staff aren't fazed by children who are upset at drop off (DD never is, but friends of hers are but within minutes of going in they forget their upset). This setting has suited DD really well. She's still relatively shy/quiet in big groups of children but she is content and finally I feel like not only is her childcare ok, but she is actually benefitting hugely from being there.

I suppose my point is to persevere. It's too early to assume that your DS has social issues or whatever. It is perfectly possible that whatever childcare setting you try next will be the right one for him.

I've had that with a childminder too, she told me my DD was vile and how would she ever get on at school! 2yrs on DD is perfectly fine at school and I am SUPER polite when I see the childminder on school runs while hissing at her in my head...

Big hugs to you OP. We're maybe looking at a CM as our 2 year old is struggling at nursery. She refused to get dressed this morning in the hope it would mean we kept her at home. She was at home last week, which didn't help, as we had a night away (she has a secondary age sibling) and then both kids were ill, but she snuggled into my shoulder this morning telling me that she didn't want to go. You feel like such a cow. The covid lockdowns, masks etc. haven't helped.

I'd start afresh and maybe ask on a local Fb page for CM / nursery recommendations, and call them. Explain your situation and see what they say. We do Mon - Wed so the misery is restricted to 3 days a week, which I think helps. Any chance you could swap the Friday to a Wednesday, or the Monday to a Thursday so you have a block of days? Is there anything locally that he loves, which you could do after nursery / CM pick-up e.g. nice playground, then he associates "childcare" days (of whatever type) with doing that nice thing?

I'll see how my DD got on a pick-up as to whether we're looking for new childcare too. I hope you find a way through this.

Find a new one, explain what's been happening and that you know he's manipulating and really need them to keep him all day.

A child of 2 literally doesn’t have the cognitive processes required to manipulate, please don’t go down that path.

Ultimately, you've got to parent the child you've got, and in your case, that means one that just isn't happy being in childcare yet.

You've tried for months, and it sounds likes he's spent hours upset every day. If you can afford it, I would personally quit work for a year or so, given you say you barely being in any money anyway.

Or you see if you can shift your hours so you work one day at the weekend, and so does your partner, do flexible hours, whatever you can do, so you can cover it between you.

Have you discussed the issue with work? Would it be something they'd likely be able to re-employ you for in the future?

@AnyFucker

Have you room for an au pair and then manage it between the three of you?

My son was terrible at any form of childcare except a lovely childminder I eventually found. He was the same at school, unfortunately right up to yr 1. You just have to grit your teeth and persevere if you need to work but you need the right support in place

Not to scare you or anything but he did grow up to have anxiety/MH problems so don’t let anyone dismiss him as simply “too soft” or “difficult”

Bloody hell. My dd didn't settle at play school or nursery. Grew up to have MH issues and is probably autistic.

Also don't want to scare you @BeyondHopee but this is the first time I have ever read anyone saying this and it has rung a bell.

For those saying nursery just need to get on with it- it's really hard. No nursery wants to 'give up' on a child but hours and hours of constant crying for months on end is really traumatic for everybody. I've worked in early years for years and have dealt with dozens of children who have been difficult to settle, making themselves sick, kicking and screaming at the doors. They've all got there in the end but it's been really upsetting for the child as well as the staff and other children for them to be that extremely distressed. If nursery aren't seeing any improvement after four months I can see why they're feeling like it just isn't working. They have the needs of all the children to consider as well as considering how distressing it is for him to be so upset for so long.

That being said OP I completely feel for you, this isn't your fault and you're in a hugely difficult situation. If you're completely stuck in regards to other options you need to be honest with the next childcare settings about what you've tried and see if any are experienced and enthusiastic to take on a child who has found settling so tricky. I really hope you manage to get somewhere

@BeyondHopee Did the nursery suggest he do a few full weeks before they gave notice?

There’s lots of kids in “normal times” that find a few days a week rough to adjust to, let alone babies who have been badly affected by lockdown and so aren’t used to being away from mum/with other babies.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup Bloody hell! What kind of a childminder calls a 2 yo vile?!

Too late for this setting but your best bet would be to try and arrange play dates with his classmates outside nursery with you present. Then you have the appeal of going to see ‘Charlie and Fred’ etc.

I had this a bit and one of his nurseries started calling me saying he was ill ( my child wasn't ill, he was coughing from crying.) In the end I said don't call me if he gets upset. I'm sorry, but they do understand. It's not deliberate manipulation, but my DS knew if he was ill I would collect him earlier. He just didn't like that setting. They didn't engage him. He'd told me it had happened to other ill children. Their mummies came to get them back before hometime he said.

He was fine at another setting two days a week. He actually went to two separate places for two days a week each ( total 4 days some only 4 hours.) The one he loved did lots of outdoor time, group games like
Musical statues and duck, duck, goose. His favourite was gardening, looking for bugs and running about. I do think he found big noisy rooms inside, over whelming.

He is now at school in reception and he does struggle with the separation of 5 days a week. But others still struggle, other who were in full time daycare before. I think big classes are the issue for some. I do suspect he has some sort of ASD, but he is doing well. He is under the school Senco for support. I wish I could send him to private school for smaller classes.

Was the nursery SENCo involved @BeyondHopee ?

What about an aupair? Someone in your own home....and it would be way more affordable. Obviously not a full time solution though as aupairs aren't for full time care...

How flexible is your work situation. Could you work 5 shorter days rather than 4 standard ones and him go to nursery/ childminder every week day but a shorter time. He may settle better if he is going every day
Alternatively on your days off, can you take him to toddler groups so he gets more used to other children but with you still there. Do you know any other 2 year olds nearby that you can arrange playdates with.

I know they're super hard to find but I'd also at least try for an au pair if you possibly can. (Even if it meant DS is in your bedroom for a while).

My eldest dc would not settle and unfortunately I had to quit FT work and work weekends and evenings when DH was home. DH had the better job at the time. We struggled for a couple of years and I didn’t start FT work again until she was 6.

The separation anxiety did continue right through her school years. She is still quite anxious in her mid 20s. However she has a good career (vet), a partner and good friends.

@HandfulofDust A crap one who thinks her way is the only way! DD had a really really difficult year, with mega sleep issues compounding a lot of behavioural challenges, but my biggest parenting regret so far is not telling that woman where to fucking stick it. Luckily Mumsnet got me told and I never sent her back, put her in preschool instead and they did a fab job and gradually worked through things. She's 6 now and a perfectly reasonable human being ... most of the time! ;)

I think you need a really skilled childminder. An environment that’s not too busy and someone who’ll get on with her day - in a kind way! - taking him to supermarket, playgroup etc so he’ll be distracted.

I'd have honest conversations with other nurseries and find one that is prepared to work on the issue with you. It may be that he's there for an hour one day, then time increases til he's comfortable. Or find a child minder that can visit at home and get to know him before taking him to her home so he's comfortable with her.

Definitely worth going back to HV and seeing if they can advise re sympathetic nursery. Some are definitely just watching the bottom line and/or won't have experience of children finding the experience difficult or with SEN kids, If you are rural, I guess the choice isn't great, but if a nursery is working closely with services for other kids then they may have the right attitude that can also help settle your DS. And be blunt with whoever you talk to and agree a strategy that they'll stick to

I also don't think he's being manipulative, he's only 2 years old.

My youngest went through a phase like this, fine in the baby room but then just cried and cried when moved up a level.

I decided to take him out on the day I stood chatting to another mum for about 20 minutes and all I could hear was him sobbing upstairs.
I did it for 18 months and then tried a nursery at the school and he was fine.

He has grown up into a rather anxious boy and I think it was just part of that. Your son is very attached to you and that's actually a good thing although I know it doesn't feel like it just now.

If staying at home isn't an option then I second a childminder with few kids which is a more home like environment.

Sometimes it's just about finding the right one for him.

Friends son the same, two childminders before age two. I wouldn't have be,I even it if I had not see the emails because he's a perfectly pleasant little boy. They said they were simply unable to cope with the crying and advised her to seek additional help for him.

Third childminder, never looked back. She's read the discharge emails and can't believe they are about the same child. Something was bothering him, guess we will never know what.

I would keep the autism thing in mind but not persue it any further at this point - it can be hard to diagnose at this age unless it's severe - and see how he is as he gets older. My ds wasn't diagnosed till 10. If it's not ASD then I'd say he might be very sensitive/anxious and needs to be handled very sensitively. It might be worth talking to someone about his levels of anxiety though.

I would try to change the days he is at nursery/childminder so they are in a block and he gets into more of a routine ie Mon, Tues,
Weds (even add a Thursday perhaps) at nursery/childminder other days at home. I would definitely try an experienced childminder again and really talk the situation through with them first, the chances are he will be happier in a smaller setting - perhaps look for one who has experience with children with SEN.

Does he have/is he allowed to take something from home? A teddy, blanket, something of yours or that smells of you? Does he have anything he is really into that they could use at his next place to engage him? Can you find somewhere where you can stay for a few sessions so he gets used to the place with you there (I know covid has made all these things more difficult). Be sure to keep talking really positively and excitedly about the place after each visit and keep talking about when he will be going next, how many days till then, and what you will do while he's there (be at work) and what you will do together after you pick him up. It's really important you're not anxious or worried when you take him as he will pick up on this - easier said than done I know. x

There is no way he;s being manipulative. NO one who has any understanding of child development would even contemplate the idea of even an incredibly advance 2 year old being capable of that. I would try to find a really skilled childminder or a nursery with strong SN support (I know he may not have SN). Be honest in advance as anyone who is put off won't be able to handle him anyway.

Took my son a whole year to settle at nursery. He;'s always had separation issues more than his peers.

I think you said you had him in two days a week - I think that makes it harder for them to settle - its such a long gap between days at that age that its almost like they are starting over each week - its harder for them to adjust. I think going for more days from the off is best. Two is s a difficult age, and its normal for children to be particularly clingy at that age.

Its tough - you have my sympathy