Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

Anything that involves a dip on a shared buffet table is very aspirarional lower middle class IMO. I wouldn't know but I doubt they have them at the palace

I didn't know that 'What are you drinking?' meant 'Would you like a drink?' Someone said it to me and I replied 'Nothing' as I didn't yet have a drink. I was very confused when that was the end of the conversation!

That's only on MN. I wore a cream dress (albeit with a pattern) on it to a wedding two years ago and didn't see anyone looking askance at me. In no world could I have looked like I was competing with the bride. And it was sold in the wedding guest section of the Phase Eight website!

It definitely a thing outside of MN.

Obviously the slightly outdated view is that bride will be wearing white, Maybe if one in two guests that don’t know the rule turn up it’s not so bad but it would look pretty shit if a lot of guests wore it.
Look more like a Jane Austen ball.

Never apply salt to your meal before tasting it. Putting salt on
untested food insults the cook

Completely agree, I can never understand why people always pour salt onto their food before checking it actually needs it (and sometimes it really is pouring it!)

I agree with the post further up that ill manners is making someone else feel uncomfortable. Yes - if your behaviour is having bad effect on someone else, it's rude and anti-social. Too many people worry about things that don't affect them, while not worrying about their behaviour affecting others.

That's only on MN.

Nope, not just on MN.

@IHaveBrilloHair

I don't double dip my own food, because I won't eat the whole tub at once and I don't really want to keep a tub of my own festering saliva in the fridge.

Surely that's when you put a spoonful on your plate? I don't understand dipping at all. You don't want bits of another kind of foodstuff in there either.

@Hollyhocksarenotmessy

It's interesting how upper class manners are supposed to trump working class manners. I was raised to say pardon instead of what, and what still sounds incredibly rude to me. Other people find what polite and pardon, well, lower class rather than actually rude. This is just snobbery. Why are we supposed to aspire to being upper/middle class instead of working class? Why is is it 'better'? It's a value judgement on people's worth/culture. It's not better to be upper class/middle class, it's just different.

Well, they aren’t really. It’s more of a shibboleth, a tiny, unconscious indication you’re part of the tribe, if those are the circles you move in. Teachers telling children to say ‘Pardon?’ rather than ‘What?’ Comes up on here all the time, for instance.

And my extremely poor WC upbringing meant I was never going to have encountered things like which way to pass the port, not pointing the cheese, switching conversational partners when a new course is served, or the way to eat fruit at a formal dinner situation. I mean, there aren’t WC ways of doing these things that someone was telling me were incorrect.

@JackieTheFart

I didn’t know double dipping was a thing until I was 22 and a room full of shocked Canadians told me off Mortified!

I’m not arsed about it around family but have brought up the kids to know that one!

It’s things like, having your knife and fork in the wrong hand is rude. Why?! What possible difference does it make to have them the opposite way to the ‘right’ way? Eating with your mouth open is disgusting visually and aurally, but I just don’t get the knife and fork one.

I think the knife and fork thing because if you hold them in the wrong hands then you automatically take up more room to scoop with your fork (your elbows are out). If you hold them the right way then you push the food onto the top of the fork and your elbows are automatically in so you don't keep getting in someone else's space or hitting some other poor diner with your elbows while they're trying to eat.

@DPotter

"Who's she, the cat's mother?"

It's a phrase said as a pull-up to those not using someone's name so it gets confusing as to who they are talking about. Bit of a catty way of doing so, much better to ask directly who is being spoken about

I disagree. I think the phrase refers to someone being addressed as ‘she’ in their presence. The correct thing to do is use their name or better still address the person directly when they are there.

Obviously the slightly outdated view is that bride will be wearing white, Maybe if one in two guests that don’t know the rule turn up it’s not so bad but it would look pretty shit if a lot of guests wore it

Just checked Phase Eight again and they have this - obviously didn't don't read MN: www.phase-eight.com/product/mariposa-floral-lace-bodice-dress-208861840.html#cgid=wedding-guest&is=false&sz=60&start=0&isSecondPage=false&pid=208861840&pos=13

Actually it says it's rose but it looks quite beige to me on the picture, maybe it's "pinker" when you actually get it in real life.

@NewMatress

Anything that involves a dip on a shared buffet table is very aspirarional lower middle class IMO. I wouldn't know but I doubt they have them at the palace

Or an ordinary Lebanese meal, or that of many other cultures where shared dishes are the norm.

Plump
This is why I don't share cheese.
I'm a total cheese addict and I'd probably cry if people mauled it.
My friend and I go to a lovely restaurant from time to time and they have a cheese trolley, yes a cheese trolley
I'd get in it if I'd fit

Never apply salt to your meal before tasting it. Putting salt on
untested food insults the cook

On the other hand, if you put it on after you've tasted the food, why isn't that 'insulting the cook?'

@looptheloopinahulahoop

Actually it says it's rose but it looks quite beige to me on the picture, maybe it's "pinker" when you actually get it in real life.

Looks very obviously pink to me.

@NewMatress

Anything that involves a dip on a shared buffet table is very aspirarional lower middle class IMO. I wouldn't know but I doubt they have them at the palace

A very Hyacinth Bucket comment. And just incorrect.

[quote looptheloopinahulahoop]Obviously the slightly outdated view is that bride will be wearing white, Maybe if one in two guests that don’t know the rule turn up it’s not so bad but it would look pretty shit if a lot of guests wore it

Just checked Phase Eight again and they have this - obviously didn't don't read MN: www.phase-eight.com/product/mariposa-floral-lace-bodice-dress-208861840.html#cgid=wedding-guest&is=false&sz=60&start=0&isSecondPage=false&pid=208861840&pos=13[/quote]
That dress comes in pink or grey - even MN doesn’t have a problem with that.

I certainly was taught good manners by my parents. They are so instilled in me that I really DO notice when people display less than perfect manners themselves.

I really cringe when people don't hold their cutlery correctly, or throw the knife and fork onto the plate when they have finished eating, and I was also taught to put the knife and fork down in between mouthfuls.

It is incredibly rude to lick a knife, as well as downright dangerous if it is a sharp one!

Eating in the street is common - eating is supposed to be a relaxing, pleasurable experience, that's why we sit down to eat in a calm environment. Also, unfortunately, a lot of people who do eat in the street just discard the packaging where they are when they have finished without disposing of it properly.

Starting to eat before all the table have been served is incredibly rude, even if the hostess tells you to start.

If you are served a bread roll at dinner, you help yourself to butter for the entire roll, then break pieces off and butter them separately, you do not butter the whole roll and then bite chunks off!

The correct response to 'how do you do?' is 'how do you do?', not 'pleased to meet you' or 'fine thanks'.

'Pardon' is awful, although 'I beg your pardon' is acceptable in cases of real misdemeanour. The correct word is 'sorry' or 'what'.

[quote Tarararara]@polyglot Could you elaborate on the salt 'code'? Are you saying you would turn to the person next to you (closer to the salt) and say 'would you like the salt' and they would say '' and offer you the salt?

This is a really interesting thread. I'm now au fait with the majority of these, but it was a steep learning curve at university (formal dinners), workplace dinners and weddings.[/quote]
Would you like me to pass you the salt Tarararara?

No thank you, would you like ME to pass you the salt?

Oh yes please

As taught to me by a very posh colleague in relation to how they were taught at boarding school. I was probably asking him to chuck me a biscuit at the time.

Seems rather cumbersome to me

I am enjoying this thread immensely! I have a very posh elderly friend who is full of this sort of thing and it fascinates me. I used to work with him and when we had a work do once, where our department was hosting, he instructed us all 'FHB!' before our guests arrived, which I'd never heard before and had to ask to have explained (stands for Family Hold Back - in other words you allow guests to fill their plates first before you dive in yourself). I was amazed how others had heard that before and I hadn't.

@IHaveBrilloHair

Yes I just wonder if people that hold cutlery like a pen or in a fist notice anyone else doing it differently.
The US is a whole other ball game. It verges on playing with your food. But I guess we look greedy to them maybe.

@PassGo

*Never apply salt to your meal before tasting it. Putting salt on untested food insults the cook*

On the other hand, if you put it on after you've tasted the food, why isn't that 'insulting the cook?'

The cook has under-salted, and you’re entirely correct to make the food more palatable, presumably as long as you don’t upend the salt cellar onto your plate while opining loudly about how underseasoned it is?

For those saying about smoking, they have lots of “smoking manners” signs in Japan at smoking areas (smoking in the street in cities is not allowed). They also have train manners signs on trains. I think it does work as I would be embarrassed to do something when there’s a sign saying it’s rude!

i did not know that about the cheese,
i seem to be aware of all else, and cringing about taking home a bottle of wine i had taken to a colleague's bbq

i must train the rest of my oikish family with regard to cheese

@IHaveBrilloHair

Plump Yes, that's what I mean, great to be polite and ask, but encourage some sort of thought. You know when young kids in school have to say, "Good morning Mrs Jones", or whatever, they clearly aren't even thinking about what they're saying, let alone giving a shit whether Mrs Jones is here or there. Polite, maybe, pointless, definitely.

It's manners by osmosis though, which is preferable to nothing.