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Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

999 replies

CheeseToastieLove · 14/05/2021 20:52

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

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Bowednotbroken · 16/05/2021 09:37

I once read or heard that the test of your own good manners is putting up with other people's bad ones. In the days when I interacted with others (pre-lockdown and redundancy!) this helped me to not react when (eg) people didn't say thank you when I held a door open etc. Might have been a bit of tooth gritting going on...

And Daffodilto Neverdropyourmooncup - that sounds horrendous.

ProfessionalWeirdo · 16/05/2021 10:30

@lms2017

That's it's rude to call someone a w*nker when you hold the door open for them and they don't say thank you ....
I always say "You're welcome", in a pleasant tone, just loud enough for them to hear.

I have yet to get a hostile response to this (they usually just look embarrassed and walk away), but I have one ready in case I need it: "Oh - I thought I heard you say 'thank you'..."

NotThereNow · 16/05/2021 10:31

As others have said a lot of this is cultural. I can't stand meekness disguised as politeness. e.g. Would you like a tea of coffee? Answered with "whatever you're having". Well that is just creating hassle and putting the onus on me to get it right. Just tell me what you want!

Also when I invite someone to be our guest at a restaurant meal, picking the cheapest thing on the menu and skipping the starter isn't good manners is my book. It is saying I don't think you can afford to feed me.

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Sssloou · 16/05/2021 10:44

I hesitate to say that someone’s manners are incorrect! But polyglot, on introductions you are mistaken. The inferior is introduced to the superior,

What the hell is this rot - who judges one of their friends or acquaintances as inferior to another?

Just why and on what basis?

I agree that good manners is looking out for others and making them feel comfortable - the above etiquette is totally divisive.

WestendVBroadway · 16/05/2021 11:03

@selfieelf

I didn't realise well in to my 30s that when you take a bottle to a party, you don't drink that bottle. Rather, it's a gift for the host and you drink theirs
However when I was in my 20s( 30 years ago) we often went to parties where the host provided the food, but the invitation stated BYO( bring your own ) drink. We were expected to provide our own drink of choice. This doesn't seem to happen anymore. I actually recall going round to a party hosted by a fellow school mum. I took a bottle of my favourite wine, which I didn't drink. The next morning I remembered I had left it at host's house. I was just about to ask if I could have it back when another party goer happened to mention that the benefit of hosting was you ended up with different wines that you may never normally buy. I quickly realised that this was the etiquette, so kept my mouth shut.Blush
Sssloou · 16/05/2021 11:07

Also smirking at taking the 1/2 bottle home after - just bizarre - what do people do .... go rooting around the kitchen? Or keep their “own” bottle by their side all night?

However the rudest guests I have had were:

One who turned up with 1/2 a bottle - said handing it over to me sorry couldn’t wait just fancied a drink before I came.....

Then my greedy drunk sister who after a very generous party laid on by us with loads of wine, food etc .... went to my fridge to help herself to 3 bottles on her way out.

Actually just remembered that both of these have drink issues....

That would be my first manners rule - being obviously more drunk than the other guests - slurring words, being loud and overbearing.

Toe curling.

Ifailed · 16/05/2021 11:20

How to eat bacon

WTF - don't tell me there are special bacon knifes and forks?

It's only just recently I found out that there's not just soup spoons, but bouillon spoons as well (thanks to Bill Bailey).

SenecaFallsRedux · 16/05/2021 13:25

The white dress thing is not just on MN.

True. It’s definitely a thing in the Southern US where I live. Also no white shoes after Labor Day (early September), although that one is not as prevalent these days. Evidently, Princess Margaret scandalized the local populace on a visit to Texas by wearing white shoes at the wrong time of year.

Also when I invite someone to be our guest at a restaurant meal, picking the cheapest thing on the menu and skipping the starter isn't good manners is my book. It is saying I don't think you can afford to feed me.

My dad taught us to always order something in the mid-range of prices when we were the guest of someone in a restaurant.

AmieeCraig · 16/05/2021 13:52

The white dress thing is not just on MN.

Very true. PP might not have had any comments at the wedding but I guarantee there were comments behind her back for wearing white at someone else's wedding.

sofato5miles · 16/05/2021 14:02

I still cringe for my friend who wote a white dress to my wedding 20 years ago. My other friends were OUTRAGED, though obviously noone said anything directly..

I am a what and a how do you do person. Though only say HDYD to other brits that i suspect use it. It just kind of pops out, like an old reptilian response from my youth 🤣

JassyRadlett · 16/05/2021 14:13

Very true. PP might not have had any comments at the wedding but I guarantee there were comments behind her back for wearing white at someone else's wedding.

My mother is still mildly annoyed with one of her friends for wearing very pale cream to our wedding. She’d never say anything to her about it, mind.

It was only eleven years ago, I’m sure she’s nearly over it.

RampantIvy · 16/05/2021 14:15

Does anyone even say "how do you do" these days? I haven't heard it in many years. I used to go to a lot of formal dos (which became much less formal after an evening's drinking Grin) before DD was born, and had loads of meetings with people outside the company. We used to shake hands and say things like "nice to see you again", but never "how do you do".

InFiveMins · 16/05/2021 14:39

Shocked at the people who would take bottles of alcohol home with them. It's a gift for the host.

Wouldn't dream of turning up with an opened bottle either.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 16/05/2021 14:46

@RampantIvy

Does anyone even say "how do you do" these days? I haven't heard it in many years. I used to go to a lot of formal dos (which became much less formal after an evening's drinking Grin) before DD was born, and had loads of meetings with people outside the company. We used to shake hands and say things like "nice to see you again", but never "how do you do".
Yes. I do.
OwlIsBeingAnOwl · 16/05/2021 14:47

@InFiveMins

Shocked at the people who would take bottles of alcohol home with them. It's a gift for the host.

Wouldn't dream of turning up with an opened bottle either.

I get that NOW, but when I was much younger, being told 'bring whatever you'll be drinking' to a house party I believed it. I had a bag of bottles and would take it home again if there were still unopened ones in there, believing I was taking my own stuff home.

I find it incredibly difficult to understand 'unsaid' rules and infer expectations without any experience. Obviously I wouldn't do it now in my 30s and wouldn't be going to 'house parties' of single youngsters!

fallfallfall · 16/05/2021 14:47

@MrsBarnstable
Emily Post, looks like they are up to edition 19
Amy Vanderbilt also has one.
Then there are courses,
www.londonschoolofetiquette.com/

OwlIsBeingAnOwl · 16/05/2021 14:51

In fact I'm incredibly anxious now about unspoken rules and breaking etiquette I don't know about so I actually engage a lot less socially (pre-covid!) than I used to because it makes me feel so mortified if I've broken a rule or looked stupid because I didn't know something.

I feel bad enough remembering all this, it's making me feel a bit physically sick especially thinking that the people I socialised with will be thinking how unbelievable my behaviour was back then. I had an odd childhood but sort of forgot about it until social functions made it incredibly obvious that I was different from 'normal' people.

fallfallfall · 16/05/2021 14:55

And the pricey way to learn manners
ivpworld.com/ivp/en.html
“Finishing school”

SenecaFallsRedux · 16/05/2021 14:59

The older etiquette books are fun to read. I remember my grandmother's had a section on "hosting a dinner party without servants" and "decorating the maid's room." I was fascinated with the chapter on how to address people, in person and in writing. It was helpful years later when I finally had cause to write to a bishop.

BillMasheen · 16/05/2021 15:01

I just wanted to pick up on a question upthread

The removing hats indoor thing.

It’s an archaic military one, as a pp says. From the days of being routinely armed. When entering a building in peace, it was customary for a man to remove your helmet as a sign of good faith.

However a woman should never be asked to remove headgear as it is part of her outfit.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/05/2021 15:02

I'm incredibly anxious now about unspoken rules and breaking etiquette I don't know ...

There's honestly no need, Owl - as said, etiquette can be a complete mare's nest if you get too far into it, but good manners and just generally trying not to make anyone uncomfortable works well enough on the whole

No doubt the real experts think we're all a load of oiks, but you can't please everyone all the time

MrsBarnstable · 16/05/2021 15:05

Thank you @fallfallfall I find it all fascinating

SenecaFallsRedux · 16/05/2021 15:06

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I'm incredibly anxious now about unspoken rules and breaking etiquette I don't know ...

There's honestly no need, Owl - as said, etiquette can be a complete mare's nest if you get too far into it, but good manners and just generally trying not to make anyone uncomfortable works well enough on the whole

No doubt the real experts think we're all a load of oiks, but you can't please everyone all the time

Exactly. And the "rules", such as they are, just aren't that important as long as people are considerate and kind. That's what I notice about people, not how they hold their knife or what they say when introduced.
TaraR2020 · 16/05/2021 15:15

It's important to teach manners and etiquette to all children, not snobbishness. Like it or not, you do them a disservice if you deliberately choose not to because they may well find themselves moving in circles or situations where it is the norm or expected and if they don't know the "rules" then chances are they will feel uncomfortable, embarrassed or insecure.

Once you know manners and etiquette you can judge when it is ok not to use them, or of course choose not to use them if you disagree on principle. But knowledge is power.

Many restaurants these days don't serve or cater on such a way as to make standard etiquette easy or appropriate. Eg the pp who made the valid point about the haphazard delivery of dishes at a work Christmas party. In such instances, the politest thing to do is to wait until those in your immediate vicinity have been served also so that those you'll be sharing the meal with eat together. Of course, if one of these people is left waiting for their food for a long time, for example, then they politely encourage the rest of you to start.

To start eating at the same time is about sharing a meal with others and ensure that no one is left twiddling their thumbs between courses while waiting for the rest of the table to catch up. The etiquette is there to ensure the smoothest and most enjoyable dining experience for for everyone. If the service let's the diners down, this isn't the fault of etiquette but demonstrates poor service.

My family were always very strict on manners but we were never made to feel bad or ashamed, they were taught naturally and gently from the cradle. My friends and colleagues come from a variety of backgrounds, and I adopt the etiquette that ensures the most mutually enjoyable experience with them.

So of course I'd never point out ignorance of etiquette on their part (even though the friend who always takes a large chunk of the nose of brie drives me nuts lol). And in informal social gatherings I don't formally greet people I meet but will adopt the manners that put others most at their ease - and myself! It can be just as embarrassing to feel overly mannered (read: pretentious) as it is to feel lacking in social graces.

It isn't pretentious or stuck up to be armed with how to behave in different social or business circles, but it definitely is (and terribly rude) to insist on such manners in situations where it's uncommon or unnecessary.

Giantrooster · 16/05/2021 15:20

@OwlIsBeingAnOwl

In fact I'm incredibly anxious now about unspoken rules and breaking etiquette I don't know about so I actually engage a lot less socially (pre-covid!) than I used to because it makes me feel so mortified if I've broken a rule or looked stupid because I didn't know something.

I feel bad enough remembering all this, it's making me feel a bit physically sick especially thinking that the people I socialised with will be thinking how unbelievable my behaviour was back then. I had an odd childhood but sort of forgot about it until social functions made it incredibly obvious that I was different from 'normal' people.

Please don't be anxious Smile. Unless you have some very obvious ones (speaking with you mouth full, chewing with front teeth or you are down right rude).

People will much rather that you are relaxed and joining in. If anyone comments, they are ill-mannered and you should think Hyasinth B.

That said, when insecure always wait 20 sec. to see what others do and then copy. (Cutlery is alway from the outside in, the first cutlery to use will be furthest from the plate).

And relax people who are in the know often cba'ed, it comes with practice and security Smile.

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