Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

Probably depends how long I've been waiting, and how cross I am feeling that nobody has had the gumption to say "oh do start Hulahoop, don't let it get cold".

Well as annoying as that might be, that's the difference between good manners and bad. They should have invited you to start - they didn't.
But the answer is not to lack manners yourself.

Everyone British knows the subtle code of not saying exactly what you mean.

When you say 'would anyone mind if I start? Only it would be such a shame for the chef's lovely soup to go cold.' that what you are really saying is 'Right, tired of waiting for you lot - I am starting.'

It's certainly not a question for which the answer should ever be, 'Yes we do mind.Have some manners and wait 20 minutes for the rest of us.'

Everyone is supposed to constantly be thinking about the needs and comfort of others before themselves.

@looptheloopinahulahoop

My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s

I went to a work "do" some years ago where I had a "hot" starter (soup) and most people had a cold one. The caterers brought the soup round first and took ages to bring the cold starters out. By the time I was "allowed" to start, the soup was cold. Nowadays I'd just say "I am starting my soup before it gets cold" and ignore any raised eyebrows.

I would always say to others to go ahead, if my food had not arrived or was delayed for some reason. There's politeness and then there's common sense, imo. No point in food going cold.

In relation to double dipping, I just couldn't do that, so it's not something I was taught.

It's been said already I know, but people just having more consideration all around, for others, would make the world and day to day life so much nicer. It has been even more noticeable in the happenings of the past year, just how self absorbed and selfish some people are.
Thankfully lots of good people and good things also came to the fore.

@bluechameleon

My friends and I held a dinner party as teenagers at one of the friend's houses. I had an argument with her Mum over laying the table. I laid it with 4 places right handed and 2 places left handed to match the people in the group, she relaid it with all right handed. Her argument was that it was the correct way to do it. Mine was (and still is) that, if you know someone is left handed, it is rude to lay their place right handed and thus deliberately inconvenience them. My parents in law never lay my place left handed and it annoys me. Why is righthandedness more polite than lefthandedness? Surely we have moved on from that, when my Grandfather was beaten at school for writing with his left?

Your intentions are noble but as a left-hander I would be quietly baffled and discreetly rearrange my cutlery back to the usual layout

Agree with pps that manners are all about making people feel comfortable.
I was always brought up fairly strictly about manners (WC Scottish/Irish parents), but I do remember being very loudly and very publicly pulled up by a friend of MILs about asking permission to use the toilet. Apparently asking discreetly "excuse me, could I please use your loo?" was very rude indeed. She then very loudly informed me that "could is rude and loo won't do!", and wouldn't tell me where it was until I'd asked "Please MAY I use your TOILET?" (I was 33). It did take me most of my strength to resist asking "I'm busting for a piss, where's your shitter?"
Saying thank you to bus drivers was something I definitely learned at my granny's knee. Hardly anyone does this and it seems kind of sad..

@ImInStealthMode

Not that I didn't know about it, but saying 'bless you' after someone sneezes wasn't a thing in my family growing up so I don't always do it automatically now.

DP often just stares pointedly at me after he's sneezed until I catch on (because it's become a joke now, not because he's being mean about it).

Apparently that dates from the days of the Plague - sneezing being a sign that you might be coming down with something, so saying 'bless you' was asking God to look after your sneezing acquaintance.

Not that I didn't know about it, but saying 'bless you' after someone sneezes wasn't a thing in my family growing up so I don't always do it automatically now

Posh people don't do it - like saying Pardon, instead of What? or saying 'Bon Appetit' in France, it's something that is thought of as polite if you are middle/working class, but common if you are really posh.

My mother always said "wear green wear black" re wearing green to weddings.

It's also the thing to take wine to a dinner party but it not be opened as the host has perfectly paired the wine with the food already. I think some people live in a different world to me though.

Your intentions are noble but as a left-hander I would be quietly baffled and discreetly rearrange my cutlery back to the usual layout

My husband and son are left handed and eat with the usual layout too. I've never seen a lefty switch them around.

She then very loudly informed me that "could is rude and loo won't do!", and wouldn't tell me where it was until I'd asked "Please MAY I use your TOILET?"

In Nancy Mitford parlance, saying 'toilet' is non-U. 'Lavatory' is the correct way to refer to it, and loo would be better than 'toilet'.

I'm uncouth and say 'I'm off for a pee' or 'going to the bog' .

@moynomore

Your intentions are noble but as a left-hander I would be quietly baffled and discreetly rearrange my cutlery back to the usual layout

My husband and son are left handed and eat with the usual layout too. I've never seen a lefty switch them around.

I always set the table right handed for everyone.

I am left handed and ate right handed for years. I don't bother now though.

I think it's more inconsiderate to expect people to eat cold food (also not very respectful to the chef)

A polite host will say, "Please do start", if it's going to take a while to serve everyone. But it's terrible manners to just plough ahead. Someone has gone to the trouble of inviting you and cooking a meal for you: the least you can do is let her get some food on her plate before you start snarfing. The point is to enjoy the meal together, not treat the host as if she is your waiter.

Who cares what the ‘posh’ people think? They certainly don’t care about what you think.

I agree that good manners are really about making people feel comfortable around you. Not how you arrange your napkin or sniff your wine.

Just on the subject of toilets, I learned on Mumsnet from an American poster that Americans only use the word 'toilet' to refer to the actual receptacle made of porcelain - never to the room/cubicle in which it is housed.

How do you do has now morphed into 'you're right?' / 'you alright?' to which in the same way you are supposed to just repeat 'you're right?' back.
I just can't bring myself to do this silly ritual - what is the point asking if you just want to hear the question back? So I just say 'I'm ok/good thanks' and ask some more releant q, like 'how is it going' with something depending on cpnrext, so a peson can actually answer that.

*context

”In Nancy Mitford parlance, saying 'toilet' is non-U. 'Lavatory' is the correct way to refer to it, and loo would be better than 'toilet'.”

I’ve never understood why “loo” is more correct than “toilet”. It’s always said that toilet is undesirable because anything involving a word with Francophone connotations is generally a bit of an aspirational working class affectation; but on this rationale, “loo” doesn’t make sense - it derives from the French “guardez l'eau” so how is it less affected and working class (apparently) than toilet?

I just can't bring myself to do this silly ritual

Nor I - I say 'I'm well thank you, how are you?'

@Arbadacarba

Just on the subject of toilets, I learned on Mumsnet from an American poster that Americans only use the word 'toilet' to refer to the actual receptacle made of porcelain - never to the room/cubicle in which it is housed.

Yes. The room it’s housed in is the bathroom or restroom, depending on geography.

I had to Google what nonU is.

Turns out being working class Scots is actually U
Based on the list. holds pinky in the air and chassés out the door

@Arbadacarba

Just on the subject of toilets, I learned on Mumsnet from an American poster that Americans only use the word 'toilet' to refer to the actual receptacle made of porcelain - never to the room/cubicle in which it is housed.

Same in Canada. It would very strange to hear someone ask where the toilet is. Would always be washroom or restroom or bathroom.

Plump in formal situations the table settings should look the same for everyone. It's just asthetically more pleasing, less confusing for the servers and for people either side of you. I'd hate it if, for example at Christmas, I'd made a huge effort with the table, nice cloth, crystal glasses, floral arrangement, candles, and someone laid the cutlery so it looked all strange and haphazard. There's just no way in a million years I could stand for it.

If someone sets you a left handed place then they are also telling you where you must sit. What if you don't want to sit there? What if someone else says 'Would you mind if I take that spot because I need to be nearer the DC' or I'm too fat to squeeze into that gap' or 'my my knee is playing up so I need to be on the end and stretch my leg out.' Or they've positioned you next to DH's really skeevy uncle who gives you the creeps and eats with his mouth open and you'd rather sit somewhere else?

Then there is a big awkward faff while everyone moves the cutlery around.

Only 12% of people are left handed. Just quietly switch yours over and stop being precious. It's not that big a deal.

@permanentlyexhaustedpigeon
“Saying thank you to bus drivers was something I definitely learned at my granny's knee. Hardly anyone does this and it seems kind of sad.”
This is another one my mother never taught me. I don’t think it was done when there were bus conductors. In fact a few years ago, my mother said people round here (where she had lived for fifty years) are very polite: they always thank the bus driver.
It’s not exactly manners, but when I moved to a city I didn’t know you had to stick your arm out to get the bus driver to stop. In a small town where the stop is only on one route, you don’t need to do that.

Someone has gone to the trouble of inviting you and cooking a meal for you: the least you can do is let her get some food on her plate before you start snarfing

At my works Christmas do, who exactly am expected to wait for when the inept staff still haven’t served the bottom end of our table of 20? Or do we wait til the chef is eating?

The problem with sticking so rigidly to outdated etiquette is that it doesn’t suit all. PP was right enough to start.

This Two Ronnies' sketch is an amusing take on British euphemisms for needing a pee.

Who decides what is bad manners and what isn't though? Some things are cultural.
The there is the etiquette ...