Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

This is another one my mother never taught me

We never went on buses, so we’re never taught it either. When I first started using buses I was a teenager and we lived rurally. I said thank you to the driver because I was asking them to stop at my house. It became a habit after that.

I don’t think it was done when there were bus conductors.

On old-style buses, you got on and off at the back of the bus so you'd never come into contact with the driver and the conductor would've been busy issuing tickets to the people getting on, so it simply wouldn't have arisen.

I'm another one who didn't realise about the 'nose' of the cheese - I'm rather embarrassed now!

It is funny how manners and etiquette change over time. I recently re-read an Agatha Christie where a part of the plot would only be picked up by the reader if they knew the etiquette of which servants to tip if you have stayed in a country house for the weekend. It may have been rather more commonly known in the 1920's and 1930's but I don't think many people would pick up on that now - I certainly didn't.

I find people not waiting for everyone to have their food and starting theirs so rude. If someone’s dish is taking ages and they say, ‘It’s fine, you start.’ fair enough but otherwise it’s such bad manners!

Not sure if this is "manners" or culture but I grew up in household where people were encouraged to venture their opinions on everything, from politics to style etc. We were actively encouraged to hold and share strong views.

It took me a long time to realise that this is frowned upon in many cultures and people go out of their way to avoid sharing strongly-held opinions in order to avoid causing offence.

I suppose I'm slightly on the fence about this now as an adult: I recognise that no-one likes a ranter or a blowhard who spouts off all the time about everything. But I also think its important for children particularly female children not to grow up feeling that a frank discussion is bad form and to have the confidence to say what they really think sometimes.

@Dogoodfeelgood

Can we please make smoking while walking something very impolite and frowned upon while we are at it?! That’s MUCH more offensive than eating in my opinion. So horrible getting stuck behind a smoker on the morning commute!

Yes please! Even worse when their smoke is going towards little ones and you either have to change route or cross over if at all possible that is.

@MintyMabel

Someone has gone to the trouble of inviting you and cooking a meal for you: the least you can do is let her get some food on her plate before you start snarfing

At my works Christmas do, who exactly am expected to wait for when the inept staff still haven’t served the bottom end of our table of 20? Or do we wait til the chef is eating?

The problem with sticking so rigidly to outdated etiquette is that it doesn’t suit all. PP was right enough to start.

Sigh, I have already said twice that there is a difference between good manners at a meal in someone's house, versus a big dinner with waiters.

Anyone who goes for a meal at someone's house and just ploughs on with eating the minute they are served is very bad-mannered. There is nothing outdated about being polite to your host.

@Arbadacarba ah, I didn't know that regarding squashing the peas - still seems pointless though opposed to eating a fork full!

[quote Waitwhat23]@Arbadacarba ah, I didn't know that regarding squashing the peas - still seems pointless though opposed to eating a fork full![/quote]
I hate peas anyway so I have no real interest in finding an efficient means of conveying them to my mouth . I only eat them if they're served to me as a guest and it would be rude not to.

IMO there's a simple distinction between etiquette and manners. Nine times out of ten, etiquette is mere snobbery. It shows who is a member of the club, and looks down in haughty distaste at those who are not. It's the sort of thing that makes me want to drop all my aitches, be dead common, and turn up to formal events wearing Doc Martens.

Manners are to make life more comfortable for others. And good manners would never convey disapproval of someone for not knowing supposed good 'etiquette'.

@moynomore My fiance is left handed and always sets the whole table left-handed...drives me nuts! (Knife on the left, fork on the right)

My father was a diplomat and I was drilled in the correct etiquette/manners for each country we lived in...so I find most of his appalling anyway!

I didn't know about knife like a pen or cutting nose off the cheese until I was in my 20s.

The cheese one I changed, the knife...I still hold it like a pen and I'm in my 50s. Couldn't care less as it affects no-one. Find it quite amusing how much it seems to wind people up on this thread.

Well having googled the odd 'would you like the salt' thing, I've now learned that you must never pass just the salt, you should always pass both the salt and pepper, even if someone has only asked for salt.

Everything you put into your mouth at the table should be bite-sized, so you don't gross out those eating with you by baring teeth or tongue. That's the point of canapés being minuscule, torn-off pieces of bread or scones instead of a whole slice' Watch Mary Berry or Prue Leith.

When it comes to fruit, you need a knife for apples, peaches, oranges etc. It may be quicker to peel a banana and bite off mouthfuls, but it's bad table manners. Fine for a picnic.

I was a scholarship girl at a posh school. The first time we had oranges for pudding (not 'dessert'. That's non-U.) I cut mine into quarters and started to sucking the juice and scrape the flesh off the skin with my teeth, like half-time at a netball match. Was told 'We don't eat our oranges like that at Xxxxxx.' I learnt not to stick my elbows out at primary school.

Forks for cakes. Biscuits can be broken. No dunking. But I've seen the French dunk croissants, so I follow their example and break off small pieces to dip and pop in my mouth. Not the whole croissant. That would be rude.

Happy to be corrected by anyone more au fait with French table manners.

Sigh, I have already said twice that there is a difference between good manners at a meal in someone's house, versus a big dinner with waiters.

Sigh, the people banging on about a PP being rude to start was in reference to a big dinner with waiting staff.

The point remains, despite your dramatics, there is no one size fits all situation with what constitutes good manners, and actually the most mannerly thing to do in your own home is to accept that your guest’s behaviour is welcome as guest trumps host always. In your example, if your guests are tucking in to food so quickly after being seated, you’ve likely kept them waiting too long to serve the food.

So all the non U words are French? Dessert, toilet, pardon... What is the upper classes' objection to French?

Another quaint one for toilets, if you are a house guest or host, is 'the geography of the house'.

Host - 'Let me show you the geography of the house where the loo is'
Guest - 'Could you show me the geography of the house, please? I'm bursting for a wee'.

I can imagine a misunderstanding where a well-meaning but puzzled host whips out a tablet and loads up Google maps.

@PurpleFlower1983

I find people not waiting for everyone to have their food and starting theirs so rude. If someone’s dish is taking ages and they say, ‘It’s fine, you start.’ fair enough but otherwise it’s such bad manners!

Well I don't like cold food, so if you ever have the misfortune to dine with me, you can huff and puff and say what a rude woman I am.

if your guests are tucking in to food so quickly after being seated, you’ve likely kept them waiting too long to serve the food

or faffing around getting other things like mint sauce or salt or whatever. Sit down and LET US EAT! MIL used to be like this - gave us all our dinner and then started messing around in the kitchen looking for things nobody had asked for. She would tell us to start, but we'd tell her to stop faffing and sit down and enjoy her good cooking!

I find it really rude in a restaurant when not all the main come out at the same time

@CatAndHisKit

How do you do has now morphed into 'you're right?' / 'you alright?' to which in the same way you are supposed to just repeat 'you're right?' back. I just can't bring myself to do this silly ritual - what is the point asking if you just want to hear the question back? So I just say 'I'm ok/good thanks' and ask some more releant q, like 'how is it going' with something depending on cpnrext, so a peson can actually answer that.

Ah, this one I know! (Unlike 'how do you do?' - like a PP, I once answered this as if it was a sincere question and was left in no doubt that this was not correct!). It's about intonation - they say 'alright?' and you say, with a flat not a rising intonation, 'alright', thus having answered their question. If you wish to return it you say 'alright. You?'. I don't actually know what the point of doing this is, but I do know it's what you do!

@NewMatress

So all the non U words are French? Dessert, toilet, pardon... What is the upper classes' objection to French?

I think it's around trying to sound posher than you are. The upper classes have nothing to prove - they're not aspirational, they're there - so they can freely use Anglo-Saxon terms, slang etc. without fear of being judged.

See also misused reflexive pronouns as a modern variation on this theme, particularly in the workplace - 'Please forward the documents to myself'/'I'll send the documents to yourself' - people think it sounds more educated than using the correct 'me' and 'you'.

Nearly 30 years in the UK and I'm just about able to remember to say "bless you" when someone sneezes. I was brought up saying "gesundheit" even though no one in my family knew anyone who spoke German.

@thepeopleversuswork

Not sure if this is "manners" or culture but I grew up in household where people were encouraged to venture their opinions on everything, from politics to style etc. We were actively encouraged to hold and share strong views.

It took me a long time to realise that this is frowned upon in many cultures and people go out of their way to avoid sharing strongly-held opinions in order to avoid causing offence.

I suppose I'm slightly on the fence about this now as an adult: I recognise that no-one likes a ranter or a blowhard who spouts off all the time about everything. But I also think its important for children particularly female children not to grow up feeling that a frank discussion is bad form and to have the confidence to say what they really think sometimes.

I think that’s very important within one’s own family and very close friends, but not necessarily the right thing to do with people you don’t know well.

@Arbadacarba

Another quaint one for toilets, if you are a house guest or host, is 'the geography of the house'.

Host - 'Let me show you the geography of the house where the loo is'
Guest - 'Could you show me the geography of the house, please? I'm bursting for a wee'.

I can imagine a misunderstanding where a well-meaning but puzzled host whips out a tablet and loads up Google maps.

But this is entirely theoretical. Firstly, if you’re staying with people as their house guests, they are your friends. They would look at you as if you were mad if you asked them the geography of the house. Secondly, modern, young upper class people genuinely do not speak or behave like this - I have several among my friends and they’re more likely to show you the “powder room”, wink wink, and remind you that you should do lines in there so as not to cause a queue for the lavatory. Thirdly, I don’t believe for one second that anyone on this thread is regularly attending the houses of upper class acquaintances, where any of this detritus about “how do you do” and “house geography” is required.