Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

What and pardon are such a minefield. I grew up in a (non-UK Anglophone) ‘what’ household. ‘Pardon’ was acceptable for burps and farts (though ‘excuse me’ was preferable).

It took rather a long period of adjustment to get used to ‘pardon’ being dominant and so many people thinking ‘what’ is unutterably rude.

I’m really shocked by how many people have had friends and acquaintances comment on their manners! Just horrible manners in turn to make someone else feel uncomfortable.

@HeddaGarbled

Don’t take all of the lovely runny end of the Brie/Camembert/other lovely runny cheese. Take a slice along the length so that other people can have a share of the best bit. I learned this after getting told off at a slightly posher than I was used to dinner party.

It was bad manners to tell you off about it!

That's a lovely thing to do ivykatie and something that wouldn't occur to most men (or just anyone that's a fast eater) but they might choose to adopt it if it was pointed out to them.

Teaching the rules of old fashioned manners is so rare now. I realise so many will seem outdated, daft, irrelevant or sexist, but many are just about kindness and consideration. That can never be a bad thing.

I was brought up in a w/c home and was always taught 5.20 for knives and forks

I don't get the not sitting on tables thing. Who WOULD ever sit on a table?

@MintyMabel

I didn't realise it was bad manners to eat in the street!

Perhaps in a time when street food vendors weren’t everywhere. Things change.

Yes, and what would you do in lockdown. You can't eat in anywhere as it's all takeaway so you have to eat in the street.

@Houseofvelour

I'm almost 31 and still have no clue how to respond to "how do you do?". A very posh gentleman said it to me when I was 15 and I replied "yeh, I'm fine. Thanks" and I still cringe when I think about it 😂

The response is "How do you do?"

@cat8986

I once worked at a restaurant and the three of us were on a break. My friend got up to get a drink (a free one, we helped ourselves to soft drinks) and asked if we’d like a drink too. The other guy said no, and I asked why and he said he thought it was rude to be ‘waited on’ and went and got himself a drink instead.

I thought it was rude for him to turn down the offer of being brought a drink, and then get up to go make his own? It’s polite to accept the offer isn’t it? it’s not rude to expect to be waited on if it’s offered.

Always bugged me!

Why did you ask him why he'd declined a drink? The whole interaction sounds a little strange - if I offered to fetch someone a drink and they declined, I'd just assume they weren't thirsty.

If someone offered to get one for me but I preferred to get my own (e.g. wanting to stretch my legs) I'd say, 'No thanks, I'll get my own' or 'I'll come with you.' I wouldn't launch into a theory about it being rude to be waited on.

I still thought it was 5.20 too... I wonder where that difference came in!

@Arbadacarba

I think genuinely posh people (as it were) can afford (as it were) to do away with some commonplace manners and can happily say What instead of Pardon

There is a reason, albeit an archaic one, why 'pardon' isn't deemed polite. It's short for 'I beg your pardon' which in earlier eras was what you said if you'd been insulted, i.e.

'Sir, you are a bounder!'
'I beg your pardon'

So (under this convention) if you say 'pardon' because you haven't heard what was said, you're implying that what was said was an insult.

Thank you Arbacadarba. I knew it was meant to be rude but could think of no logical reason why 'What' should be any more polite.

I love Ifailed's distinction upthread between manners and etiquette. So much of the Nancy Mitford style advice is preying on people's social anxieties, as opposed to Dementedma's courteous man who went to the trouble of making her mother feel more comfortable.

Bluechameleon, I think laying a place setting according to a person's left/right handedness is much more courteous and welcoming. Obviously it wouldn't work at a formal banquet but it's a nice thing to do when you know the guests.

Thanks @IntoAir but it stems from the house parties we had as teens and into our twenties, the very informal types where everyone would take their alcohol away with them when they left, therefore took me a while to realise that it wasn't the done thing.

We were taught strict 'hygene' manners,as my parents were born in the 1920s, and had family who died of TB and other infectious illnesses before antibiotics, so would never have double dipped, also washing hands regularly and never sharing cutlery or cups and glasses, even within the family. When covid appeared and all the advice was publicised, my sisters and I were struck by this. I still cringe when I see mothers sucking dummies to 'clean' them after they have been on the floor. Other peoples spit was like poison to us! I think a lot of manners can be traced back to historical practical reasons, and wonder if covid will cause any new ones?

@IHaveBrilloHair

I was taught all of these things, Im glad I know should I ever need to but lots are fairly ridiculous. Eating soup by spooning it from the far side of the bowl, and towards the edge? Why exactly?

so you don't accidentally scoop it into your lap!

It was bad manners to tell you off about it!

Depends on the circumstances really - if it was a good friend who said it in a kind and jokey way rather than in a critical judgemental way, I'd be thankful that I'd learnt something new and socially useful.

None of us are borne knowing this stuff and some of us have parents who didn't know it either.

Manners are usually things that actually impact other people

So tearing bread or whatever won't impact your neighbour at table

But diving into your food first and gobbling it down, not speaking, then sitting looking bored will impact a dinner party or social meal.

I'd only be bothered with basics like that.
My dc are also taught to ask if anyone wants the last x first.. Before diving on it.
My highly critical and judgey pils never taught dh these things, and I know how hard it is once habits are ingrained. Because aware of others..

@pollyglot

Some of the gems I learned at my Granny's knee:

• NEVER say "nice to meet you".

-"How do you do?" is the correct response to the same question

• ALWAYS use the person's name when addressing him/her
• A younger person always uses the formal "Mr/Mrs Smith", not using

first names until invited.

• Introduce the social superior to the inferior, or the lady to the man.
• A seated man rises to shake hands on introduction, whereas a lady

remains seated

• A lady always offers her hand first
• A linen napkin is never folded after use - the assumption is that the

maids will launder it immediately after the meal. For the same reason, napkin rings are ((shudder)).

• Beds should never be made immediately after being vacated.

Bedding should be folded back to the chair at the foot of the bed, to allow for airing.

• NEVER do anything to embarrass anyone with whom one is

engaging

• A lady is recognised by her shoes and her handbag. Always

immaculate and of the best quality the wearer can afford.

• Diamonds are never worn before dark
• Peas are never piled on the fork, using it like a spoon
• The soup thing
• The HKLP thing
• Never cut bread, or butter the whole slice. Butter should be cut and

placed on the side plate, the bread torn, and butter applied piece by piece. Same with jam etc.

• Never ask anyone to pass the salt - instead, ask the person next to

you if he/she would like the salt. Code understood.

• Never apply salt to your meal before tasting it. Putting salt on

untested food insults the cook.

• Never arrived empty-handed when invited. Always write a thank-you

note.

• Visiting cards should never say "Mr John Smith" The "Mr" is seen as

an affectation.

Granny was born in 1889. Her etiquette and manners reflected the era, but then, good manners are timeless.

Blimey.

I love the comment someone made up thread about the difference between manners and etiquette. I have a lot of time for good manners but so many of these are just upper clash tosh. Rules for posh people to belittle others.

All of this etiquette palaver and pardon bollocks just makes me want to rebel, to tear the bread with my teeth and eat peas with a spoon.

Some of these surely dont need teaching and are common sense... like the 'double dip' one, if its your own private dip you can do whatever you like but if its a shared dip you obviously dont lick/bite something then put it back.

Many are outdated like eating in the street etc... I keep my curtains closed because it keeps the house the perfect temprature always cool in summer and warm in winter (+ I HATE nosey neighbors) but I was told loads back in the day that its a 'signal or mourning' but I highly doubt anyone walks the street looking for closed curtains to offer their condolances anymore lol.

The dont take your drink thing is insane... here its far ruder to waste something than to take it, I mean no one else is going to drink your half drunk bottle of cider so leaving it would be wasteful and just leaving clutter in the hosts home.

H is from a military family and was also in the forces and instead of pardon they/he says ‘say again?’ in a quizzical way, which apparently was/is what is used. So that’s what we say at home or the longer ‘I didn’t hear you, would you say again?’ I was brought up to say pardon because to my parents saying ‘what?’ in a cockney accent sounds way more jarringly rude than pardon. It may be charming in a posh accent but I’d have got a telling off if I’d answered my Dad ever with ‘what?’.

@KineticSand

Really enjoying this thread but no one has got the correct phrase for when you don't catch what someone had said... Pardon/ sorry/ what aren't the thing it's YOU WHAT??

The one that winds me up is when people just grunt at you when they don’t hear what you said:

URRGGHHHH?!

Absolutely awful. I just ignore it if people do it to me, and only respond if I’m politely asked to repeat myself.

You must also wait to be seated-say at a black tie dinner or wedding when you are assigned tables-until everyone is there.
You stand at your place behind your chair and everyone sits at the same time.

I use my fork like a spoon to eat peas and butter the entire roll or piece of bread. I don't care what the "etiquette" is, I do it the way that's easiest. Chasing peas around the plate is a nonsense.

And if people want to hold their knife and fork the other way round, that's up to them - I suspect that rule was the old prejudice against left-handers. It's not hard to lay the cutlery that way round if you know in advance either.

Never ask anyone to pass the salt - instead, ask the person next to
you if he/she would like the salt. Code understood

I've never heard that one.

It works for him but he is well aware it's not how other people do it, it makes me sad that there will be judgey people who think he has bad table manners.

Same here @EversoDelighted. DD has impeccable manners, but her hands often let her down so how she uses cutlery can seem very ill mannered. She’s tried for years but she just can’t do it. It bothers me that people would judge her for it. It doesn’t impact on anyone else so judging her is a shitty thing to do.

The mark of a truly posh person who has been drilled in upper middle class etiquette their whole life is that they would never do this. They would not wish to embarrass you by drawing attention to your ignorance of their rules.

I’m far from upper middle but this was one rule drummed in to us. I remember my brother once correcting a friend he had round for dinner because he used his cutlery wrong. Mum took my brother out of the room, gave him a stern talking to and told him to go back in the room and use his cutlery the way his friend did. She spoke to us all afterwards and said one of the most ill mannered thing you could do was to make the people around you feel like they were doing things wrong, especially if they were your guests. I never forgot that.

But double dipping isn't "obvious" if you've not heard the rule. As many on here have posted! Not licking, but biting a breadstick/dorito and putting it back was quite normal with friends when I was young and was ages before I realised.

Peas are never piled on the fork, using it like a spoon

Well in that case peas should be treated like soup, or any other food than needs a spoon, and a spoon should provided.

I remember the first time I went to dinner at a school friend's house and I watched her father painstakingly squashing his peas into a mush on the back of his fork with his knife, in order to get them to his mouth without them falling off. It struck me as quite an icky thing to do as I was always taught not to 'mash' or mix my food up on the plate like baby food - that's what teeth are for.

Some of these rules are counter-productive and plain stupid. I scoop my peas and I don't care.