Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

I also think it’s very bad manners to ridicule or look down at someone because they don’t ‘know’ manners!

My husband licks his knife while eating, which I was always taught not to do and it grates on me.
Also, reading at the table at meal times.

it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s

Good lord!

How could people not know how rude both those things are?

Not because of a textbook of manners, but because they’re both inconsiderate and greedy actions, in which the person shows lack of consideration or thought for others.

the knife and fork is to stop banging elbows while at the table.

i have been appalled at the table manners of my dc friends when younger, but obviously i let it go

@Blossominspring2021

I also think it’s very bad manners to ridicule or look down at someone because they don’t ‘know’ manners!

Completely agree!

@dementedma

I agree that good manners are about making your guests feel at ease. My elderly mother and I were once invited to a very posh do with a drinks/"supper" in a castle before the main event.Everyone was standing up chatting and mum was beginning to feel a bit wobbly so she sat on a low armchair which of course put her at waist height to the other guests and out of the conversation. A very handsome chap in black tie and medals appeared at her side, dropped to his knees saying" WHAT a good idea to take weight off for a while. I find standing so tiring." and he remained there chatting away until it was time to leave.By the then he could scarcely stand due to cramp!! That was manners.

This is so lovely

My friends and I held a dinner party as teenagers at one of the friend's houses. I had an argument with her Mum over laying the table. I laid it with 4 places right handed and 2 places left handed to match the people in the group, she relaid it with all right handed. Her argument was that it was the correct way to do it. Mine was (and still is) that, if you know someone is left handed, it is rude to lay their place right handed and thus deliberately inconvenience them. My parents in law never lay my place left handed and it annoys me. Why is righthandedness more polite than lefthandedness? Surely we have moved on from that, when my Grandfather was beaten at school for writing with his left?

The putting your knife and fork together is a really useful signal that you've finished eating. I went to US in 2019 and was visiting my dd who is a very slow eater. Several times the waiting staff would appear to take our plates but we hadn't finished just resting our life and fork on the plates. In the end we learnt to say we'll call you over when we have finished after the first time they did it.

@DPotter

"Who's she, the cat's mother?"

It's a phrase said as a pull-up to those not using someone's name so it gets confusing as to who they are talking about. Bit of a catty way of doing so, much better to ask directly who is being spoken about

No. It isn’t necessarily confusing. It’s a pull-up to someone referring to a female (other than a small child) as she in her presence. The alternative would be a wounded: ‘you talk about me as though I’m not here’

@FortVictoria yes, it thoroughly warmed my heart.

that sitting on tables in New Zealand is an absolute "no no".

I learnt that from some Maori women - it’s a respect thing for the table as a clean place of eating and sharing food. So you don’t plonk your bottom on it, or your shoes.

I don’t think anyone enjoy seeing others eating with their mouth open....but lots of children who are of an age to know better seem to do it, and likewise to regularly leave the table during the meal rather than remaining seated....talking about 7 or 8 year olds still popping up and down.

It irks me when waiting staff start clearing the table when someone is still eating, or when a host does this. Allowing everyone to finish without feeling hurried, cannot be seen as an arbitrary and outdated ‘rule’ surely.

I think some of the things on this thread are things that are less common these days, although those brought up in homes which have a history of being more affluent often know them. However, it does strike me that lots of children and teens rarely say ‘please’ or ‘thank you’ which must be the most basic use of manners. Some also struggle to sit through a meal or to make any conversation. I guess if you’ve never done these things then they will be difficult. However, I notice children from fairly affluent backgrounds also behaving like this and not being expected to sit through a meal. Why is that?

@MsTSwift

The best manners are putting others at ease. I attended a friends family event on my own and her two charming much older brothers in law who were very grand who I had never met totally put me at my ease. That’s class and manners.

I do wince at pardon know it’s my problem read too much Nancy Mitford and jolly cooper as a teen. “ mummy says pardon is a much worse word than fuck” 😁

I think genuinely posh people (as it were) can afford (as it were) to do away with some commonplace manners and can happily say What instead of Pardon, and eat exactly how they want etc, because their poshness oozes out in a multitude of other ways, it'll be "deliciously eccentric and rule bending" of them [envy} (sick not envy) and they know it. There's a hint of 'the common rules/manners don't apply to us' about it. They are secure in their undoubted poshness and don't need to prove it by bothering with some of the social rules.

@londonscalling I lived in the US for a while and they always clear the plates from people who have finished when others are still eating!

I was really surprised at first as I had been taught that was bad manners. But their reasoning is that no one should have to look at a 'dirty' plate while they are eating. They see it as bad manners not to clear away a dirty plate immediately.

@IntoAir

that sitting on tables in New Zealand is an absolute "no no".

I learnt that from some Maori women - it’s a respect thing for the table as a clean place of eating and sharing food. So you don’t plonk your bottom on it, or your shoes.

I didn't know this but think sitting on tables or shoes on table is not nice for exactly that reason.

My mum was very big on "no feet on seats" and TBH I don't like it when I see kids inside supermarket trolleys for the same reason. What if they had dog poo on their shoes? It doesn't sit well with me. I know it's something a lot of MN can't see an issue with but I don't like it because I think it's rude to think your kids shoes can go where other people place their food.

Thank you letters after birthdays and Christmas. We were always taught to be polite and say thank you, we would not have dreamed of not thanking people, but we'd do it by phone or in person. Whichever could be done soonest.

As I grew up and acquired lots of very middle class friends and I was bewildered by this obsession with making your children hand write a letter to grannies and godparents to thank them for things, even if they gave them to you in person and you thanked them at the time.

It just seems such a wooden and insincere exercise in etiquette, I don't see the point of it.

Where is it considered OK to sit on a table?

I think genuinely posh people (as it were) can afford (as it were) to do away with some commonplace manners and can happily say What instead of Pardon

There is a reason, albeit an archaic one, why 'pardon' isn't deemed polite. It's short for 'I beg your pardon' which in earlier eras was what you said if you'd been insulted, i.e.

'Sir, you are a bounder!'
'I beg your pardon'

So (under this convention) if you say 'pardon' because you haven't heard what was said, you're implying that what was said was an insult.

She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

Surely the bigger problem was how quickly she ate.

Don’t nose the cheese

I didn't realise it was bad manners to eat in the street!

Perhaps in a time when street food vendors weren’t everywhere. Things change.

@IHaveBrilloHair

I was taught all of these things, Im glad I know should I ever need to but lots are fairly ridiculous. Eating soup by spooning it from the far side of the bowl, and towards the edge? Why exactly?

So you're less likely to spill it down your front, I think it came from ships originally.

So what is the correct response to how do you do??
I think the official response is "how do you do?"
This is correct. There was an outcry when Carole Middleton met the Queen and said “Pleased to meet you”. Because it is assumed that one is pleased to meet the Queen. The correct phrase is “How do you do”.

'I also think it’s very bad manners to ridicule or look down at someone because they don’t ‘know’ manners!'

It absolutely is. The mark of a truly posh person who has been drilled in upper middle class etiquette their whole life is that they would never do this. They would not wish to embarrass you by drawing attention to your ignorance of their rules.

It's usually people who have recently learnt the rules themselves via social mobility that like to laud it over others they now consider beneath them.

@IntoAir

it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s

Good lord!

How could people not know how rude both those things are?

Not because of a textbook of manners, but because they’re both inconsiderate and greedy actions, in which the person shows lack of consideration or thought for others.

Not posh parties but "bring what you'll be drinking" kind of thing. I thought taking my 2litre bottles of cider home was the equivalent of picking up after yourself. It's not always as obvious as you might think if you're not told explicitly about rules.