Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

@DandelionRose

A teacher once told me off sternly for not saying "Excuse me" after sneezing.

Also when teenage I used to constantly sniff rather than bother getting a tissue to blow into. Couldn't see that it was rude, but it is rude making others listen.

SO many teenages seem to think this way and some learn it from home. When I suggested that a constantly sniffing pupil needed to bring some tissues to school her mother rang to complain, if I wanted her to stop sniffing it was up to me to provide her with tissues! This wasn't a reception class where every teacher has a loo roll handy, they were 14/15 years old!

i just learnt recently while watching some etiquette thing from olivia colman, re the crown, Would you like the salt? translates to them answering by saying, may i pass it to you?

Please don't take your half empty bottle home. It is such bad manners

It depends. When DD used to have teen parties we always used to find cans of disgusting fruit ciders lying around. I wish they had taken them home.

On the other hand when friends come to dinner if we haven't finished the wine they brought we always offer it back to them, but they always tell us to keep it and finish it ourselves.

I have one friend who is a keen gin drinker and we always bring a selection of gins to each others houses to try. We always take the gins home again beause some of them are difficult to find and they are expensive.

@IHaveBrilloHair

I was taught all of these things, Im glad I know should I ever need to but lots are fairly ridiculous. Eating soup by spooning it from the far side of the bowl, and towards the edge? Why exactly?

Surely soup's the other way, draw your spoon away from you. that's what my very working class father always insisted we did.

@Smashingorbs oh my goodness yes! You've just reminded me when DH and I went on a boat trip with a dinner on holiday with about 8 others (excursion type so didn't know anybof them), on the way to the dinner we were told it would be mussels, mozzarella and tomato salad and bread and did anyone want anything different for dietary requirements, everyone said no then when we got there one woman decided she wouldn't eat any of the mussels as she didn't like them so completely hogged the shared bowl of salad so only about 3 others got any. I even said, "Oh there's no salad left?" and looked pointedly at her and she responded "Well I won't eat the mussels so I've had more of the salad" That was 3 years ago and I'm still cross about it

Knowing table placement (glass to the right, side plate to the left) is useful because it ensures that everyone has their utensils by them. I have had a couple of times at a formal dinner where a person next to me has taken my glass/ plate and left me asking for one halfway round the table.

Generally I'd wait for everyone to be served before starting to eat. If there is a delay on a choice being served then someone will encourage those that have been served to eat while it's hot. It's better if people are eating at the same time.

Ettiquette on fork- left and knife-right, is assuming a NT, right-handed majority and does avoid elbow banging of people cutting elbow to elbow. Trying to train a ND child how to eat effectively and with minimal mess is interesting. I don't expect perfection and it's very much pick your battles (dyspraxia and ASD are a tough combination) but he does need to develop a style that compromises comfort, with practicality and not result in chasing food around the tablecloth or using his hands.

Most parties I go to are informal. You might bring a drink for the host and leave that for them, but your own drinks for consumption, can come and go with you. We provide wine, basic range of spirits and soft drinks/ mixers, and say to bring anything fancier. Our friends tend to be into real ales which we don't drink so leaving those with us is a waste. We went this way after a few parties where we bought beers that no one went for and it was a complete waste.

My bugbear is buffets/ communal serving where you're left with an inadequate amount of food because of people that swept in promptly and took large portions. If everyone takes a modest portion, there should be enough for seconds and everyone to have a decent amount.
I got caught out at a wedding hog roast when 4m postnatal and struggling with my pelvis after a long day and stuck with a ravenous BFing baby hitting clusterfeed mode. I waited for the queue to calm down and there were barely scrapings left. Not sure if it was portion control or people having seconds. I was starving by then.

@Brokenpencilsarepointless Your comment about not eating until everyone is served it not to do with class now, it's just good manners.

You really don't dive in until everyone else has their plate of food, unless those waiting say 'Go ahead, don't wait for me'.

I find it really rude for people (excluding close family) to dive in while half the table isn't served. It's manners and etiquette to wait then everyone enjoys the meal together.

@Ifailed I agree that there is snobbery (which can be any class) and thinking of others - but sometimes it is also just ritual and habits that a group gets used to.

I’ve been accused of being ‘very English’ because I wait for my turn, don’t eat with my mouth open, make conversation with people, am hygienic and thank people. I am a bit ‘mmm’ when people don’t do this and just thought it was being considerate!

If someone uses the wrong knife or butters their toast the ‘wrong’ way, honestly who cares it doesn’t affect anyone else!

@Pieman
I think not referring to a female as ‘she’ in her presence was one rule that my mother always enforced (who’s she? The cat’s mother?). For this reason, it causes me absolute rage when anyone does it to me, particularly in a work situation. It’s basically just rude because it’s not the custom here.
My family have very basic manners.
I remember digging in at a children’s party and one bossy little girl pointing out everyone else is waiting.
Sending a thank you note after receiving hospitality was probably not something I did until my forties.
I’m still not sure what the etiquette is when serving yourself from dishes on the table. Is it universal (outside my family) that you don’t have seconds till everyone has an empty plate?

Yes waiting until everyone is sat down is just being considerate. My mother taught me that we waited for the cook to let us know we could eat because they are always the last to sit down, and it’s a way of being considerate to them.

I was part of a step family once who never waited, and it was really dog eat dog at the table - honestly the first one to start eating was usually finished by the time whoever cooked it sat down and it felt like a canteen, not a family. No one spoke to anyone either, or thanked the cook. They thought I was ridiculous because when I cooked I expected at least to be thanked!

@memberofthewedding

I could never get my head around this "rounds" in a pub custom and have always bought my own. You are drinking coke and buying expensive drinks for others. How is that fair?

I also found that if you socialise alone with couples you get cheated. So if you are out with two couples it should be your turn every 5th round. Instead it comes around every third because the wives rarely put their hands in their pockets.

When I pointed out such things people used to say I was "tight" but I just preferred to go to the bar and get my own drinks. Fortunately I have never cared overmuch what other people thought of me, and in my 70s I care even less.

I don’t think not doing rounds is considered rude, certainly not in any of my many many years going to pubs and having parents who brought me up in many. It’s usual to say on arrival if someone offers you in ‘no thanks, I’m staying on my own tonight’. If people get annoyed then that is rude.

What is rude tho is accepting drinks in rounds and then going to the bar and buying your own, or sitting quietly letting the rounds circle without saying ‘it’s my round now’, or purposely staying quiet while everyone takes their turn then just before your round saying you are leaving. Or going to the toilet for a really long time so your turn gets skipped. All of these things I’ve experienced a lot more than once.

I remember it being a real culture clash when I went to uni. All the WC students understood rounds and a lot of the MC kids happily accepted drinks without realising how rude they were being. Also when highlighted to them they called us rude, as you should never give to receive.

I do worry that my teen Ds will be judged negatively on cutlery use, he is dyspraxic with hypermobile finger joints and cannot for the life of him cut food while holding cutlery "correctly" (he holds the fork vertically prongs down with his fist wrapped round, thumb at the top to cut food then changes it round to pick up and eat). It works for him but he is well aware it's not how other people do it, it makes me sad that there will be judgey people who think he has bad table manners.

@IHaveBrilloHair

Oh god I used to know this absolute twonk who'd never open the wine the guests brought as he'd matched his perfectly to his food, and he'd tell them this. He'd also only cook for people he thought would appreciate his food, and when bringing out the cheese, would tell a story about each one, then cut the guests a small piece each. He also weighed out portions of each course. He was such a wanker.

I always understood that it is incorrect to take wine to a dinner party as the hosts may feel obliged to open your bottle when they'd already planned the wine for the meal, (and your wine might be crap!)

@ButtercupSquash yes the referring to ‘she’ is ignoring the fact that you are in the room. You wouldn’t directly address someone as ‘she’, you’d use their name, and if someone’s in the room you are directly addressing them always. That’s why it feels rude. Because it’s mentally ignoring the fact you are standing there!

Dh had no idea about putting your knife and fork together once you’d finished your meal. That one had been ingrained in me from a young age and all my friends did it so it never occurred to me some people didn’t do it.

On the subject of taking your drink home my DH's boss is super posh (titled, lives in the ancestral manor house) and is one of the rudest people I know. This is particularly noticeable around parties and alcohol. At a very formal dinner hosted by company clients he called the waiter over and ordered different wines to the ones provided by our hosts as he didn't think the ones the hosts had provided were very good. He then told the waiter to charge them to our hosts account. Funnily enough the client has requested he no longer works on their account.

On another occasion he held a garden party for colleagues and clients in a marquee in his (beautiful) grounds. There were two tiers of wine served, some for the general guests and different more expensive wines for a chosen few. To ensure the waiting staff knew which wine to serve to who there were two different types of wine glass. My, what fun we had switching them around.

And his most recent act of alcohol related rudeness - we went to Sunday lunch at their house and one guest brought a bottle of wine as a gift. When that guest left he gave them the wine they had bought to take home saying 'you might as well take this back, no one here will drink it'. My gift of home made sourdough bread was given back to me in the same way although he kept the champagne we had bought. .

@IHaveBrilloHair

I definitely wouldn't make anyone feel uncomfortable, but I may point it out kindly afterwards not silly soup rules, but eating before everyone is served for example, because that really is just plain rude, but if you don't know you don't know. also HKLP, I can't cope with it!

At a very formal dinner with royalty present they're served first but then when they finish everyine else is supposed to stop eating, a double whammy, you're served last but fininsh almost immediately!

@EversoDelighted that to me is a big difference, using cutlery doesnt’ affect anyone else so no idea why anyone would judge. I don’t like people eating with their mouth open but it’s fairly easy to tell if someone is unable to close their mouth. Good manners is about consideration so if someone judged someone for acting in a way they couldn’t change, then they are being very bad mannered!

Rounds can be a social minefield, say there are six of you its unlikely you will get through six rounds of drinks, you feel awkward if you don't keep up with the speed others are drinking at, all sorts of pitfalls, even just trying to remember what the 6 drinks are when you go to the bar to order, but its easier for one person to get served than 6 individuals in a busy bar.

@m0therofdragons

Dh had no idea about putting your knife and fork together once you’d finished your meal. That one had been ingrained in me from a young age and all my friends did it so it never occurred to me some people didn’t do it.

For me that’s just a ‘useful’ but not to do with manners - it’s just a useful signal at home or in restaurants that you’ve finished. But not essential.

@MsTSwift

The one I find weird is the parent bustling off with the birthday child’s present! Surely you open it up there and then for the mutual enjoyment of all? Lots of people did this I never did!

When our chidren were small we never opened presents at the party for a number of reasons, we were running round like headless chickens, the children were playing games and also if someone brought a modest present we never wanted that to be an issue with other, better-off children.

The knife and fork one in the wrong hands is silly, but I'll admit to inwardly cringing when people don't use cutlery properly.

It's only not silly if you are completely ambidextrous, in which case everyone would just assume that you were left handed anyway and not really care that they were the wrong way around.

I can't abide seeing right handed people swapping their knife and fork over and proceeding to mangle, tear and drag at their food because they can't control the cutlery properly like a left handed person. There is a reason we hold our knife in the hand we write with.

It bewilders me that anyone does this but it's surprisingly common. I know a couple of people that do it and I find I'm constantly resisting the urge to shout 'WHAT THE HELL? THIS MAKES NO SENSE AND I FEEL LIKE I AM DINING WITH CHIMPANZEES.'

I don't, obviously, because that would be rude. But I want to.

@IHaveBrilloHair

The knife and fork one in the wrong hands is silly, but I'll admit to inwardly cringing when people don't use cutlery properly. Dd used to tell me to shush when I'd watch CDWM, and yell, "knife like pen", at the TV.

I know how to use cutlery properly and how to set a table etc, but even though I’m right handed, I use my knife and fork the “wrong” way around. It feels harder and unnatural the “correct” way. I also can’t wear a watch on my left wrist either. Maybe I’m just weird 🤣

for my dc we opened the presents later and wrote down who sent what to send a card, ideally

Im of the thinking that manners are there to make life more pleasant for everyone, and most manners are made for that purpose - but not all manners, I can't understand why holding your knife like a pen is of any consequence to anyone else.

KS try youtube for examples of holding a knife.