Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

I once attended a Team building meeting held in an Asian Restaurant with the meal funded by the Company CEO who was visiting our area at the time, and who joined us for the event.

We all chose our own meal from the main Restaurant Menu, and it consisted of a Curry Dish, Rice and Nan Bread. 14 of us sat down to dine at a table where we were sat facing another Team member.
I was sat opposite a Deputy Manager, The CEO was seated next to her.

When the meals arrived, and everyone was starting to Eat from their plates, this Deputy Manager started asking everyone what type of Curry they had had, followed by her reaching over onto other people’s plates and taking a forkful to Try it and Laughing as she did so. She even did this to the CEO, who looked Horrified. Thankfully l had ordered the same Curry so she left my plate well and truly alone.

This was another person who ate with their mouth open, had a habit of breaking wind loudly wherever she went, followed by more laughter, and totally misjudged the situation and told inappropriate rude jokes when a more professional Manner was called for.

Her behaviour that night certainly did not do her any favours, there was a big team Shake up, the poor Assistant manager below her got a verbal warning for not whistle blowing regarding her attitudes and behaviour to Head office sooner.

She was dismissed after an enquiry was held into her dealings with a Client’s Social Worker, who had lodged a formal complaint a few weeks previously regarding her attitudes and behaviour.

I cannot eat in the street as it was drummed into me by my.very stern Grannie. If needed, I will find a bench to sit on to eat but I couldn't walk along eating.

For me, it's the etiquette around eating peas - that the fork is meant to face downwards and you are meant to chase the peas around the plate and stab them with the tines. What a waste of time! It always reminds me of the poem 'I eat my peas with honey, I've done it all my life. It makes the peas taste funny, but it keeps them on the knife'.

@Brokenpencilsarepointless

The not eating until everyone has been serviced thing is wrong. It was the middle classes trying to be upper class and getting it wrong.

The only time you wait is if the dish is served cold. If the food is served hot, you dont wait, you eat.

That is true in theory but I think it dates from the days when UC people had servants waiting in table, and is now out of date. I know a few really posh people through a work connection and have been to dinner parties with them. Everyone waits.

@Ifailed

Manners oil the wheels of society and protect others from your diseases (e.g. wait your turn, please/thank-you, cough into a hanky, don't spit).

Etiquette is about creating divisions in society with artificial rules aimed to belittle those who don't follow them (e.g. how you use cutlery, 'correct' language, kowtowing to your 'betters')

I can't face the whole thread, but so much this.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

It may have filtered down due to commonly being "the way it's done" but it isn't actually bad manners to start. It depends entirely on the branch of "posh" you're talking about. It's the same as pardon and what. A lot of well to do people say pardon. We say what because it's the correct word to use, and some people see it as rude.

I’m loving this thread

Oh and he said "sorry" if he misheard, not what or pardon

I do that as well. I don’t think anyone told me to though. I think pardon sounds old fashioned, and what sounds rude.

Re the soup thing – my mother was born and brought up in Germany and thought the English way of eating soup by moving the spoon away from you was pretentious. Obviously I didn’t know it was a “thing” until someone pointed out that I was eating soup “incorrectly”.

I don’t agree that eating with the cutlery in “the wrong hands” is rude. Some people are left handed. Do people who think left handed people using cutlery “the wrong way round” should write with their right hand as well? I thought attitudes like this had disappeared.

And what is is with bread rolls? I had no idea until I used to post on a food forum that it was “incorrect” to cut your bread roll in half and butter the entire thing. Why?

I also don’t understand why people feel they have to balance peas on a fork with the tines pointing down. How impractical is that? How do these people eat rice?

Among my friends and family when people bring wine to a meal it is intended to be drunk there and then, not as a gift. The gift is usually flowers, and sometimes chocolates. DH cannot drink wine with food (genuine medical issue) and much prefers to have a couple of glasses before eating so it doesn’t matter if the wine goes with the food or not. Again, among our circles it is normal to have a few pre-prandial drinks with nibbles.

I have such remembered a few gems – my mum taught me that it is rude to cover your food in ketchup, brown sauce, mayonnaise etc. You had to put it on the side of your plate, something I always do. @butterpuffed my auntie had a little glass dish with a tiny spoon for salt, and again you put the salt on the side of your plate rather than all over your food. In Germany is it rude to cut potatoes with a knife because it implies that the potatoes aren’t sufficiently cooked, and you should keep your hands on the table, not under the table, and in France you should never cut lettuce with a knife (I don’t know why).

I have taken soft drinks to a party when driving @EversoDelighted (as well as wine). Often the soft drinks option is something I won’t drink – diet drinks full of artificial sweeteners, so I find taking my own is the best option.

So it isn't rude to draw attention to the cook's mistake by adding salt?

IMO, no. Salt is a very personal thing. I don’t like food that has no salt in it, nor do I like food that is too salty.

I can't believe ANYONE would have to be told about double dipping though. It's all kinds of wrong

I agree.

@SavannahLands

I once attended a Team building meeting held in an Asian Restaurant with the meal funded by the Company CEO who was visiting our area at the time, and who joined us for the event.

We all chose our own meal from the main Restaurant Menu, and it consisted of a Curry Dish, Rice and Nan Bread. 14 of us sat down to dine at a table where we were sat facing another Team member.
I was sat opposite a Deputy Manager, The CEO was seated next to her.

When the meals arrived, and everyone was starting to Eat from their plates, this Deputy Manager started asking everyone what type of Curry they had had, followed by her reaching over onto other people’s plates and taking a forkful to Try it and Laughing as she did so. She even did this to the CEO, who looked Horrified. Thankfully l had ordered the same Curry so she left my plate well and truly alone.

This was another person who ate with their mouth open, had a habit of breaking wind loudly wherever she went, followed by more laughter, and totally misjudged the situation and told inappropriate rude jokes when a more professional Manner was called for.

Her behaviour that night certainly did not do her any favours, there was a big team Shake up, the poor Assistant manager below her got a verbal warning for not whistle blowing regarding her attitudes and behaviour to Head office sooner.

She was dismissed after an enquiry was held into her dealings with a Client’s Social Worker, who had lodged a formal complaint a few weeks previously regarding her attitudes and behaviour.

I'm lost

What was the Assistant Manager supposed to whistle blow about?

So many people here confusing manners/ etiquette and culture/ tradition.

@memberofthewedding

I could never get my head around this "rounds" in a pub custom and have always bought my own. You are drinking coke and buying expensive drinks for others. How is that fair?

I also found that if you socialise alone with couples you get cheated. So if you are out with two couples it should be your turn every 5th round. Instead it comes around every third because the wives rarely put their hands in their pockets.

When I pointed out such things people used to say I was "tight" but I just preferred to go to the bar and get my own drinks. Fortunately I have never cared overmuch what other people thought of me, and in my 70s I care even less.

Similar to when you go for a meal and someone suggests splitting the bill between the number of people in the group. Funnily enough that person always seems to be the one who has ordered the Sirloin steak, whilst others have only had a salad.

@Brokenpencilsarepointless

The not eating until everyone has been serviced thing is wrong. It was the middle classes trying to be upper class and getting it wrong.

The only time you wait is if the dish is served cold. If the food is served hot, you dont wait, you eat.

The best solution to this is for one of the people who haven’t yet been served to tell those who have to start before it gets cold. Saves lots of awkwardness.

I love the stories of gentlemen putting people at ease. That’s good manners and class.

How bad mannered food sharing woman was?

It's also very class based.

I knew someone who, as a man, would stand up every time a woman left the dining table, which is the height of good manners in certain social circles.

@IHaveBrilloHair

Omg the 6.30 position for the cutlery once finished. I inwardly cringe when people don't do this which is utterly ridiculous in the settings I'm in, it really doesn't matter. We also had to say, "thank you for the lovely meal, may we please leave the table", which was utter a nonsense and just a phrase we parroted. I never made Dd say any such thing I encouraged her to chat about the food and if she didn't like it, that was fine, though sometimes it transpired it was a particular veg on the plate, or the curry was a wee bit hot for her or whatever, so the meal could be repeated at a later date with a few tweaks. Parroting a stupid phrase was exactly that, stupid.

That's reminded me that we had to say, "Please may I get down, Amen." We blurted it out as quickly as possible so that we could go and play. I have no idea why as we weren't a particularly religious family.

I have just learnt the 'how do you do' thing! No idea if I've ever offended anyone though.

@DotBall

I don’t think it’s a nonsense to teach children to ask if they may (not can!) leave the table

When DS was little I taught him to say “Please may I have...” rather than “Please can I have...” as it just sounds more pleasant.

For about 3 years we got “Please may can I have...” 😂

Also, despite quite a lot of swearing that goes on in our house, if he gets frustrated he says “Oh my gosh” rather than OMG or FFS. He’s a decent lad but we certainly aren’t posh 😂

I was taught that it is 'May I please...?'

Because you 'can' but you 'may not'.

Made perfect sense to me.

I couldn't care less if someone tips their soup bowl the 'wrong' way, but I can't bear people who don't pass food around at the table. Surely any adult is capable of realising that the person at the other end of the table might like some spuds? I really judge non-passers grin

Absolutely this!

And I don't want to start a hoo-haa about shy people and introverts v extroverts but I do think it is incumbent upon you as a (neuro-typical) guest, receiving hospitality from your host, that you at least attempt to make conversation with others and show a bit of interest in the people around you, rather then silently chomping through four courses staring at your plate I'm looking at you Mr H.

Please don't take your half empty bottle home. It is such bad manners
I really wish people would take them home. God knows what I'm supposed to do with loads of random bottles of alcohol that I don't drink.
I've insisted that people their drinks home but the bottles left behind that have already been opened just get thrown away.

@HeddaGarbled

Don’t take all of the lovely runny end of the Brie/Camembert/other lovely runny cheese. Take a slice along the length so that other people can have a share of the best bit. I learned this after getting told off at a slightly posher than I was used to dinner party.

you must never cut the 'nose' (pointy bit) off the cheese or indeed the cake! There are also some cheeses which should be scooped and not actually cut at all. If in doubt let someone else go first...

Salt - only season after tasting because you don't know how much seasoning has already been added and you might make the food to salty. Or it might be so disgusting that you want to disguise it.

Some of these 'rules' are more common sense than manners.

My mum was super strict about table manner and thank you notes so I'm well covered there. What I didn't know was that when you visited a new baby you should bring a gift like you would bring a hostess gift or a birthday present. I can remember imparting this particular pearl of wisdom to my sister when she was visiting a colleague's new child and how surprised she was and how grateful that I'd saved her from the faux pas I had unknowingly committed a few weeks before.

The thing I find rude nowadays (that didn't exist when I was young) is people constantly checking their phone when they are in company and particularly during meals. My BIL is a shocker for this. As a family we've never allowed phones at the table and my teenage children were shocked that this otherwise lovely man will take calls or check messages while the conversation continues around him.

would you like some water?
This is cue for please pass me the water

.

Does anyone have a picture they could share of HKLP versus the correct way to hold a knife?

I think I might be guilty of HKLP. I've just had a pen out and a knife and fork and tried to figure out what I'm doing, I can't tell. Advice online is contradictory.

... DP is from a posher background to me and has criticised my knife holding before but he can't explain what's wrong.

that the fork is meant to face downwards and you are meant to chase the peas around the plate and stab them with the tines.

Actually, I don't think you're even supposed to stab them - you're meant to squash them on the top of your fork.