Idiot’s guide to the Palestine/Israel conflict anyone?

[4PawsGood]

I have googled, and in the past too, but everything is so long winded.

Anyone able to put together a three sentence summary? I really would like to understand what the background is.

@ShirleyPhallus

Really good summaries, thank you

As a basic question which I appreciate will have a lot of very complex answers, it seems clear that Israel have taken over Palestinian land, and Palestine wants it back. But I’ve seen a lot on social media people saying they stand with Israel. Why is that? Do they believe the land is rightfully theirs?

Or does this relate to a specific area - is that what the fighting for the Gaza Strip refers to?

Israel has focussed heavily on the message that it has a right to defend itself, so that to the ordinary observer who knows little about the history, it plays into the narrative that the Palestinians are the aggressors. This is generally supported by the media, by referring to it as a conflict between Israel and Palestine - it cannot in any shape or form be called a conflict when the power and international support of the two sides are greatly uneven.

Ultimately, the Zionist movement wants a Jewish homeland, which is understandable following the violence against Jews throughout the 20th century. But they have achieved that by literally stealing the homes and land of Palestinians, forcing them to leave altogether or live in what has essentially become slums in Gaza. It is therefore not surprising that people who are oppressed and dehumanised fight back.

Israel is the more powerful entity. It is on Israel to handle this better.

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/east-jerusalems-sheikh-jarrah-becomes-emblem-palestinian-struggle-2021-05-10/

This explains part of what kicked off the current conflict. Basically there was a real estate dispute and an Israeli Supreme Court judgment which confirmed certain properties in a mostly Palestinian area were Jewish owned and entitled the Jewish owners to evict the Palestinians living there. I believe it was a very long running dispute. Strangely disputes where Jewish settlers are legally removed from Palestinian areas don't get reported in the media here.....but that happens quite a bit.

IMO as long as Hamas are involved there is very little chance of reaching a peaceful solution. Israel is entitled to defend itself and its citizens and its a huge shame for all the innocent people that get caught in the cross fire and have to live in such stressful times.

@thinkfast

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/east-jerusalems-sheikh-jarrah-becomes-emblem-palestinian-struggle-2021-05-10/

This explains part of what kicked off the current conflict. Basically there was a real estate dispute and an Israeli Supreme Court judgment which confirmed certain properties in a mostly Palestinian area were Jewish owned and entitled the Jewish owners to evict the Palestinians living there. I believe it was a very long running dispute. Strangely disputes where Jewish settlers are legally removed from Palestinian areas don't get reported in the media here.....but that happens quite a bit.

IMO as long as Hamas are involved there is very little chance of reaching a peaceful solution. Israel is entitled to defend itself and its citizens and its a huge shame for all the innocent people that get caught in the cross fire and have to live in such stressful times.

Not sure you can refer the eviction of Palestinians from their homes as a “real estate dispute”...

I found this really easy to understand

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/20436092

IMO as long as Hamas are involved there is very little chance of reaching a peaceful solution

This.

So much of the narrative around Israel Palestine ignores the fact that Hamas is not a country or legitimate player.

It’s an atrocious terrorist organisation that stole power from Palestinian leadership, that kills LGBT people regularly, fires rockets from schools and UN buildings, and is hurting its own people in more ways than Im inclined to count.

Ultimately, the biggest difference is that when Israeli civilians are hurt it’s a Hamas celebration. When Palestinians civilians are hurt there’s an Israeli investigation and people often go to jail.

Very few people in Israel celebrate dead Palestinian civilians.

Sorry, the above was a quote from a close friend of mine involved in relief work in Palestine –I hit 'post' while still drafting.

Very few people in Israel celebrate dead Palestinian civilians

I have seen countless videos of Israelis celebrating dead Palestinians, including dead children.

The hatred goes both ways and attempts to portray the Palestinians as terrorist supporters who want to see Israel destroyed is another attempt to dehumanise the Palestinians. It also fails to consider the reality of what is actually happening, including why Hamas has so much support by the Palestinians (which is nothing to do with the attacks on Israel).

With respect, @MsHedgehog, the number of videos you've seen does not = the proportion of people doing the celebrating.

There is no dehumanising going on here – the friend I'm quoting is doing relief work IN Palestine.

@EssentialHummus & @SlipperyDippery have given excellent summaries of the situation since the formation of the modern state of Israel in 1948.

But

It’s also important to understand that the land we now refer to as Israel & Palestine have been fought over for millennia by various national, ethnic & religious groups. Jerusalem is a holy city to Jews, Christians and Muslims so wars in the Middle East didn’t start in 1948. They are as old as human civilisation itself.

@ladybee28 I completely accept that, but how is that any different to you (or your friend) generalising about Palestinians celebrating dead Israelis?

It is modern day settler colonialism and it seems like there is no act cruel or sickening enough to stop western governments’ support for Israel. This is due to the areas strategic geopolitical position and also because right wing evangelicals actually want a holy war to bring about the prophesies of the book of revelation. Palestinians are forced into smaller and smaller territory with high poverty, and terrible water and electricity services. Some even liken gaza to an open air prison. It is a small area with nowhere to escape to. They don’t have a forcefield and bomb shelters like the Israelis do. I understand the terrible events of the Holocaust will change the psyches of the survivors and their descendants but it so so heartbreaking to see fascist mobs beating down peoples doors and beating up teenagers and children. How can they not see that they are doing what was done to them? How can a democracy give rights to people based on race and religion? I believe there is a high level of propaganda in Israeli media because the people seem completely brainwashed. I just feel so ashamed as an Australian that my country will never put the slightest bit of diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop the violence and incursion into Palestinian territory.

It’s also important to understand that the land we now refer to as Israel & Palestine have been fought over for millennia by various national, ethnic & religious groups. Jerusalem is a holy city to Jews, Christians and Muslims so wars in the Middle East didn’t start in 1948. They are as old as human civilisation itself.

I was just coming on to add something similar.

This is not just any old parcel of land that people are fighting over ownership of. This includes some of the most holy land to those involved, areas that have been holy to many for hundreds of years, and have been fought over, occupied, invaded, etc countless times - including by the British, who are far from innocent here.

MsHedgehog it most certainly was a real estate dispute. Your comment implies it was a simple case of Israelis evicting Palestinians from their homes.

In fact there have been a number of long running dispute me concerning who owned and who had the right to live on certain properties in East Jerusalem. The land in question had been Jewish owned until 1948 when the Jewish owners were expelled by Jordan (it fell within Jordanian territory at that time). Jordan later housed Palestinian refugees in homes there in the 1950s and Palestinians have lived there ever since. Since 1967 when the land came back within Israeli territory, there have been several court cases regarding who should now be entitled to own and occupy the land.

Thank you to those in the thread who have taken the time to explain. I've been feeling increasingly ignorant but it seemed too big a subject to begin learning about.

@Imtootired

It is modern day settler colonialism and it seems like there is no act cruel or sickening enough to stop western governments’ support for Israel. This is due to the areas strategic geopolitical position and also because right wing evangelicals actually want a holy war to bring about the prophesies of the book of revelation. Palestinians are forced into smaller and smaller territory with high poverty, and terrible water and electricity services. Some even liken gaza to an open air prison. It is a small area with nowhere to escape to. They don’t have a forcefield and bomb shelters like the Israelis do. I understand the terrible events of the Holocaust will change the psyches of the survivors and their descendants but it so so heartbreaking to see fascist mobs beating down peoples doors and beating up teenagers and children. How can they not see that they are doing what was done to them? How can a democracy give rights to people based on race and religion? I believe there is a high level of propaganda in Israeli media because the people seem completely brainwashed. I just feel so ashamed as an Australian that my country will never put the slightest bit of diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop the violence and incursion into Palestinian territory.

Australia has its own problems regarding the treatment of indigenous people it needs to deal with as well.

Try this, which is not complete.

Israel created as a place that all jews could go to without fear of mass extermination, such as the Holocaust. (Any jew or spouse of a Jew has right of abode in Israel).

But the land chosen was a) already occupied by people who are justifiably angered at being displaced and b) is full of places of religious importance to at least three mutually incompatible religions.

Result - endless war with immense suffering on all sides. Gaza a truly terrible place with great deprivation. Hamas ( does not equal Palestinians) have declared the desire to destroy Israel and yes they aren't bothered about their own civilians. ( They are not alone in this desire, and a lot of those who want to destroy Israel want that because it is full of Jews)

Israeli government continuing to seize land and displace people in defiance of international law. Not supported by all israelis. Not all Israelis are jews. Now added inter religion hate and violence within Israel. Fewer Israeli casualties than Palestinians due to anti missile systems.

Generations of hate. I have no idea how this can be ended.

There are a couple of things that I think are worth correcting here.

The idea that the Israel-Palestine conflict is an ancient conflict, born of religious antipathy, that has rumbled on for thousands of years is just not correct. The origins of the current conflict are not religious. Islamist groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah emerged in the 70s and 80s and have become more and more influential since the First Intifada began in ‘87. Before that the leadership of the Palestinians (then the PLO) was dominated mainly by secular groups. The conflict started mainly because of competing desires for national self-determination.
The second thing that I think really needs correcting is the map of “Palestinian land”. No land in what was once the British mandate has been under sovereign Palestinian control ever... not since the idea of the Palestinians as a distinct people has existed. Palestinians lived under the rule of the Ottomans, then under the British. Since 1948 those who have remained in what used to be the mandate have lived under continuous occupation of either the Israelis, the Egyptians or the Jordanians. It always seems to get lost that the Palestinans were totally fucked by neighbouring Arab countries in 1948. They invaded Israel in an attempt to wipe it off the map, botched the invasion, and at the end of that war Jordan and Egypt occupied the West Bank and Gaza respectively. Those areas spent almost two decades under Arab occupation before the Israelis occupied them in 1967. The map both under represents the extent to which the Palestinians have been denied political autonomy and misrepresents their plight as being solely the doing of Israel.

It's also worth adding that in the current situation America plays a big role. They give Israel a few billion dollars in aid each year, with the understanding that Israel will use that money to buy military equipment from US companies. It's essentially a way of funnelling money back into the American economy and there are a lot of powerful voices lobbying in America to keep the status quo. I genuinely believe that unless America changes course, the conflict will only end when Israel has completely eliminated the Palestinians.

@ConfusedAdultFemale get your facts correct, another person who has no idea and spreads misinformation. This recent conflict sparked due to Israeli Jews illegally taking possession of Palestinian homes in sheikh Jarrah. How would you like it if someone decides they are stealing your home and kicking you out, no police/authority will come to your aid as these People have a 'right' to do this, rendering you and your family homeless.

Israel is entitled to defend itself and its citizens

Bloody hell. By annexing already occupied land and kicking people out of the territory they’ve lived in forever? Reminds me horribly of American or Australian colonisation.

America and Britain are supportive of Israel (hello, Eurovision!) which means that ultimately, the Israeli government will quite likely achieve their aim of eradicating Palestine/Palestinians from the entire territory.

It is complex, people can choose a date in history to support their point of view which further muddies the water. Certainly Britain buggered things up by basically abandoning the area when they were meant to act as negotiators between the two groups.
One thing I noticed many years ago when I was on a kibbutz and a moshav: the Israeli side felt safe for me as a woman, and, though it was not expected of me, the local Palestinian women had to walk 10 paces behind the men. I kept waiting for them to catch up till someone in the group told me that as there was a Palestinian man present in the group they couldn't walk with us in the way they had previously when he wasn't there. That has coloured my judgement, I know.
It is so sad, as essentialhummous and slipperydippery have so wonderfully illustrated, there is willingness on both sides to sort something out. I was optimistic a few months ago when some sort of agreements seemed to be happening... how sad to be here again. So in answer to the OP there is no 3 sentence summary, sadly.

Going back to 1947, who/how was it decided where Israel would exist?

@cherrysoup why do you think America & Britain so supportive?

@MadameMinimes I liked your summary.

And yours @thinkfast for offering an explanation for the current situation.

Land lived in by Arabs for centuries - the same Arabs that fought with the British to defeat German allies the Ottoman Empire- was colonised by Jews with the help of the British post WW1. The Jewish population in Palestine continued to grow especially in 1930s due to rising nazism in Europe. Israel created in 1948 (after zionists conducted terror campaign to force British to leave Palestine). In 1948 war nearly 90% of the Arab population of Palestine were forcibly expelled from their homes by the Israelis and left stateless. They (understandably) remain angry about this and would like their land back. Israel has not only refused to give them the land back but has taken more (1967 war) and continues to build on Palestinian land to this day.

There is a very understandable reason the Palestinians are upset however we mostly hear about Palestinians in the context of terrorism groups like Hamas only.

Highly recommend this book : Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonial Conquest and Resistance blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/The-Hundred-Years-War-on-Palestine-by-Rashid-Khalidi-author/9781781259344

Data source:
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present