Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286?s=21

In my Twitter feed this morning - recordings of transwomen masturbating and having sex in women’s toilets and change rooms. In some you can hear women and children in the cubicles next door.

The thread is fairly disgusting, and may well be deleted but important it show, because this never happens

@nolongersurprised

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286?s=21

In my Twitter feed this morning - recordings of transwomen masturbating and having sex in women’s toilets and change rooms. In some you can hear women and children in the cubicles next door.

The thread is fairly disgusting, and may well be deleted but important it show, because this never happens

Op

Please look at this, even if you don’t read anything else on this thread.

If we allow self ID, we allow this.

[quote RedDogsBeg]@Imasoulman, I'm slightly surprised you said early to mid 80's but I'll leave it there.

How are women to tell whether a male in the female toilets absolutely has no ulterior motive from one who absolutely does have an ulterior motive? If you let one male in, how do you prevent any other male coming in? It is salami slicing of basic safeguarding.

The Cambridge Rapist preyed on women in colleges in Cambridge in the 1970's, now how did he gain access to the female only colleges to carry out his raping? Yes, that's right he dressed as a woman to go unnoticed. Put you and him side by side in the female toilets what are the signs that one of you has an ulterior motive?

Female spaces and services are for the safety, privacy and dignity of female. We too just want to pee without feeling threatened, uncomfortable or on edge and the way to achieve that is to be absolute in the knowledge that the only other humans in there with us are females.

Why are male violence problems within male toilets, and I'm not convinced it is as wide a scale problem as is stated, pushed onto the shoulders of females to solve? Why are we deemed as having to protect males from the violence of other males? We've got enough trouble protecting ourselves from male violence without being used as human shields for other males as well.[/quote]
Why surprised by the 80's ? Are you comparing New Romantics to Trans people?

Of course you can't possibly know what anybody's motive for doing anything truly is.
I am all in favour of single sex toilets along side unisex toilets, I believe that is the answer.
Strict space for Women, strict space for men along side a space for people who don't mind mixing.

Please remember my original comment was just recounting my experiences from decades ago, I shared because it was relevant to the conversation.

I mostly lurk....but sometimes when you see shit like this it becomes impossible not to say anything. I missed you all too! I'm still keeping on, just about surviving.
Reddogsbed is absolutely right. That needs to be on billboards.

Imasoulman, to be frank I don't give a flying fuck about what you want, or want trans identified folk want, I just want to be able to go out and about and live my life and use the bathroom without a dude in there. Why should women care? It isn't our problem. If you felt threatened by other men, take it up with them.

Please remember my original comment was just recounting my experiences from decades ago, I shared because it was relevant to the conversation.

Yes your comment was very relevant to the conversation but not perhaps in the way you thought it would be.

@DetroitInTheCity

Imasoulman, to be frank I don't give a flying fuck about what you want, or want trans identified folk want, I just want to be able to go out and about and live my life and use the bathroom without a dude in there. Why should women care? It isn't our problem. If you felt threatened by other men, take it up with them.

Have you actually read anything I have posted ??

I have lost count of the amount of times I have said that there should be safe single sex spaces along side unisex spaces. I guess people just don't wade through all the comments

@Imasoulman

I have lost count of the amount of times I have said that there should be safe single sex spaces along side unisex spaces. I guess people just don't wade through all the comments

Noted that you have said this, but when no unisex spaces are available then the rules for single sex still apply - they are segregated on the basis of sex, no men, however they feel or identify in the womens, it is the only way to safeguard the safety, privacy and dignity of women.

Transwomen are not women as a woman is an adult human female, therefore no access for TW to the single sex female toilets.

Women have boundaries for very good reasons.

Loads of people say men/ women/ unisex is the answer.

And yet all the orgs that are pushing for things to be better for trans people don't seem to want this. They are well funded, have loads of wealthy corporate partners and a lot of support in govt etc. They would get somewhere way way quicker than those fighting for facilities for disabled people did (and that fight continues).

So why is this not a priority?

The other thing is strict facilities for single sex. How does that work in practice? It's been happening now that we've been told to look the other way and shut up and be kind that the sort of invisible barrier has been removed. There's also the issue of hate crimes. Material saying that girls saying to a trans girl they're in the wrong facility and it is/ could (can't remember) be illegal, has been delivered in schools. There was a thread about it.

The genie is out of the bottle, as it were.

Plus loads of things have been changed in restaurants, stations etc. Either making the ladies unisex and leaving the gents alone. Or changing the sign on the ladies to everyone and just getting rid of the gents. Opening up space and saving on cleaning etc.

Then there's prisons. You can't have a unisex prison surely? Hospital wards. The old method was clear and unambiguous. Women ignored the occasional trans woman in the ladies. Now it's all a free for all.

Then there's prisons. You can't have a unisex prison surely?

And yet... www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/canadian-women-speak-out

...and that attitude is exactly why we don't want men in the bathroom - entitled and aggressive. Keep to your own spaces. I saw what you said, thanks.

This was in s restaurant I went to before lockdown. I post it a lot but anyway!

The other thing is men don't want women in their bogs either. I've been met with apologies, and another time a sense of hostility, where it's old style cubicles in a big room. And those ones have gaps over/ under etc (voyeurism) and if it's quiet it's you and a bloke by yourselves in a place with doors that can be locked.

@Imasoulman

I have lost count of the amount of times I have said that there should be safe single sex spaces along side unisex spaces. I guess people just don't wade through all the comments

I agree. How can we put this on the TRA agenda instead of female spaces increasingly becoming unisex? I think it’s useful to have the insight of a trans woman as to how this is best approached so that we can all agree, make changes and all have safe spaces we actually feel safe in.

I for one have had enough of consulting and talking and giving way and being nice. No more being nice. No more talking. There is not a shelter in the city I live that is ALL FEMALE. There is not a public bathroom, because trans identified people are being consulted and women's safety ignored. Fuck it, I have had enough of not having a drink while I am out so I can stay safe and not have to use a bathroom. What do you the men suggest? Women wear diapers?

@nolongersurprised

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286?s=21

In my Twitter feed this morning - recordings of transwomen masturbating and having sex in women’s toilets and change rooms. In some you can hear women and children in the cubicles next door.

The thread is fairly disgusting, and may well be deleted but important it show, because this never happens

This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen

@DetroitInTheCity to be honest, I agree with you. There was a time when this could have been negotiated and discussed but women were hit with 'no debate', slurs and threats, and called transphobes for trying to raise obvious safeguarding issues. Governments consulted only with trans groups about issues which affected women without also consulting women's groups showing complete disrespect of women.

Now it's all starting to go wrong for gender ideologists as the general public become aware of how this is actually going to impact them, in terms of sports, prisons etc, and there will undoubtably now be calls for 'civil discussion'. We wanted civil discussion and were told to die in grease fires.

This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen

It’s disgusting. And even worse, there’s obviously a market for “transwomen masturbating in female toilets and changing rooms” porn.

Still, it never happens

I just had a brief look at the twitter thread and those trans invaders using women's bathrooms for sexual kicks, and that is exactly why I don't feel able to use bathrooms. Forget being nice, did you see how that man reacted to my not patting him on the head on this thread? Attack and disregard - and that is why I have nothing to do with any man at all. I owe men nothing.
No more giving way. Im done with giving way.

Nonmaquille I looked at the Twitter thing.

I mean are any of the women on here surprised?

Women know that there are a very large amount of creepy men around.

Women know that for whatever reason plenty of men get their kicks from really odd stuff in a way that women in general don't. I'm heterosexual. I have no inclination whatsoever to spy on men getting changed, spycam their bogs so I can see them taking a piss or a shit, wear or steal blokes undies for sexual kicks, expose myself to schoolboys etc etc. The crime stats confirm that when it comes to weirdly creepy pervy behaviour it's overwhelmingly men. Like, almost always.

So I'm not surprised that given the opportunity there will be no small number of men who will be keen to sit in a cubicle and have a loud wank when there is a woman or girl in the next cubicle.

I read ages ago a fetishy thing about putting semen on the seat, door lock etc so women will likely come (no pun intended!) into contact with it.

Again not surprised.

Men don't like to hear this stuff not interested. Metoo it was all why didn't you say anything? We've been banging on about it for decades. They don't want to know.

And just remembered nspcc man. Rubber fetishised. Filmed himself wanking in the bog. Talked about having come and piss in his rubber pants for the day.

Apparently saying this was not on was homophobic. And the nspcc said you're bigots don't pick on this poor chap.

Imagine having meetings with a colleague when you know he likes to work with piss and come in his rubber pants. How is that ok?

But yeah. Right wing fuddy duddy bigoted women.

And didn't the gay rights movement work really hard to get rid of the idea that gay men were perves? So how does saying this is not on is homophobia help gay men?

No wanks should be had in public bathrooms, quiet or otherwise.

Well sure. And certainly not in the ladies.

However it's not unusual I believe for men to want a bit of relief at work etc. In the gents.

And the gents in the UK at least - and often particular ones- are known for men to pick up other men for sex.

We even have a term for it (cottaging).

I suspect this is why the unwritten rules for using a gents are so strict and so different to women's bogs.

A few years back there were a few things that were Pro gender rather than sex division. With a 'glamorous' person in a dress in the gents. The men all looking. Caption. Do you really want her in with your husband. Implication. Men are never faithful if they get an opportunity. Public toilets are a normal place to have sex. That message got dropped quite quickly.

Women don't have known public toilets that they meet other women in for no strings sex. As far as I know.

There's just a huge gulf between male and female sexual behaviour in some areas.

@wearetheweirdosmr

I'm an LGB ally but I don't believe the DSD (I) want too be or should be included In The alphabet soup. Trans ideology is very homophobic so I guess my question is how can you be an LGB ally yet support T?

Exactly. And this old trope about 'you're on the wrong side of history, gay people went through all this 30 years ago and now it's fine to be gay' etc well gay people weren't asking us to go along with pretending they were something they weren't. They never tried to suppress the truth, they never put women and children in danger to satisfy their own urge for validation. So it's not the same. LGB is entirely different from T.

That Twitter thread is absolutely grim.

I have a question for anyone who says “I don’t care, they can pee next to me!”

You’re alone in the female toilets, in a fairly quiet place with not many people around. As you leave, a 10 year old girl enters the toilets. She is soon followed by an adult male. Do you:

a) double back to make sure the girl is safe or
b) assume the male identifies as a woman and do nothing?