Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

The women, who complained about the colleague are white and Christian.

Yeah this sounds straight out racist and religiously intolerant.

Try listening to those women's reasons instead of finding physical characteristics about the group that you can use to reject their voices.

It's sorted then. Women aren't happy therefore access to single-sex denied, no debate. The situation should never have been allowed to arise in the first place.

The women who complained were white and Christian.

This does sound racist. And completely disregarding any history of abuse and sexual assault that they may not have shared with OP (not surprisingly as OP seems to be all about the feelings of the transwomen.

If there are Muslim women, have you considered that they may not have the courage to complain?

There was a Muslim woman on MN seeking advice about exactly this a few weeks ago. There was a transwomen using the women’s toilets and this meant that she was unable to wash for prayer. She was extremely concerned and scared to make a fuss. I cannot remember what happened, I think they would speak to her Imam and Muslim support organisations. I can imagine that she didn’t want to be othered at a place like OPs work.

I don’t want to presume but it seems likely that OP would dismiss this woman as well as any sexual abuse survivors. “Let’s not hurt the feelings of the transwoman who doesn’t really like to use the men’s anymore” .

Good way to make the office white and Christian if it isn’t already.

The women, who complained about the colleague are white and Christian

And are those women not allowed to have opinions?

Not to mention driving out the women who need single sex spaces due to Autism or other disabilities. Plenty of MNetters discuss these issues. Women's single sex provision was designed for female people. Its first job is to include and provide for all female people. If to include male born people to give them a choice of two facilities the female provision no longer meets the needs of all female people then it's no longer serving its core purpose.

Not to mention the ethics of taking any facility at all from some female people to provide all male people with their preferred choice from all the facilities. There is no justification for that other than believing that a male born person has higher importance and rights than a female born person. Which is obviously problematic.

@thecatmother

I am neither white, nor am I Christian. The women, who complained about the colleague are white and Christian. I think the majority of the people here do tend to forget about that its ok to have different opinions, nobody needs to be insulted or called out. However, a lot of views here are shared from a very dark place, as usual, when we strongly feel threatened by somebody's otherness we must look within ourselves. My profession is none of anyone's business, but I can assure you that you would understand the psychological vetting if you knew. Again, being a victim doesn't mean that you can't work for us, it's about how you can handle yourself. Hence that's why I was baffled by the complaining party. On this note, good night to all. Stay safe.

Does your organisation also vet for disabilities? I am autistic - which is a disability - and being forced to accept the belief that transwomen are women causes me psychological distress.

If it does, why?

If it doesn't, why aren't people like me taken into consideration?

Thread from woman seeking advice about a workplace committing religious discrimination in order to be inclusive of trans people.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4175451-muslim-women-and-trans-policies-in-the-workplace?msgid=105001833#105001833

Id still like an answer for my simple question

If its lgbt+ do you have to support every single one of the letters

And actually what is meant by support...I think you can support transwomen but still baulk at TW in sports for example

I am autistic - which is a disability - and being forced to accept the belief that transwomen are women causes me psychological distress.

I'm autistic too. It goes against every fibre of my being to lie. I am distressed at the thought of having to go against all my senses and declare a male a woman.
Why should I have to cause myself such distress?

This actually makes me so angry. I think integration of different cultures and religions is so important.

One of my DDs best friends is Muslim. There are so small things that needs to be done to accommodate integration (even if you don’t have regular play dates like we do). Always have a halal alternative at parties, make sure that some sweets are halal (some have non-halal gelatine) and organise so one Muslim (or Jewish) mum can stay at the party and help the Muslim/Jewish children to make the right choices. This matters a lot. As does sensitivity about the fact that they don’t want to be in some spaces with males. And still some mums don’t think about this.

The transwoman can use a third space or the men’s. They can still be integrated in office life, go to the pub, go out for a drink etc.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

Id still like an answer for my simple question

If its lgbt+ do you have to support every single one of the letters

And actually what is meant by support...I think you can support transwomen but still baulk at TW in sports for example

And indeed some trans people think that way too. So you can't support all trans people if you support them using opposite sex facilities , because some disagree

What do transwomen think? Do they want gender neutral spaces?

And indeed some trans people think that way too. So you can't support all trans people if you support them using opposite sex facilities , because some disagree

I support the transwomen who don't seek to remove women's safety by demanding they get to use womens single sex space. I don't support transwomen who think it's ok to remove the safeguards for women and girls. Gender identity is not sex. And women need sex segregated space because of their biological reality.

Again, being a victim doesn't mean that you can't work for us, it's about how you can handle yourself. Hence that's why I was baffled by the complaining party.

Ahhh. Hang on. So, OP believes that if you ARE a victim of sex abuse or male violence, you CAN work there. BUT... you cannot ask for any consideration for the issues that arise from abuse.

And if you DO, and you are even white and Christian, you are a COMPLAINER.

But a transwoman, who may have significant mental health issues including gender dysphoria, should be IMMEDIATELY accommodated.

Got it.

OP, do you ever get past the 'all those who are disagreeing with me on MN are just doing so from their 'dark, dark places', and understand that maybe you need to look at what YOU wrote and how YOU are expressing yourself.

Your misogyny is right there for the reading. In your rush to be seen as inclusive in a way that signals the fastest and with less work from you, you are completely the opposite to inclusive to those with hidden needs that are probably coming from horrific incidents in their past that you will never know about.

And you won't acknowledge it because you are determined to be righteous.

@Erikrie

And indeed some trans people think that way too. So you can't support all trans people if you support them using opposite sex facilities , because some disagree

I support the transwomen who don't seek to remove women's safety by demanding they get to use womens single sex space. I don't support transwomen who think it's ok to remove the safeguards for women and girls. Gender identity is not sex. And women need sex segregated space because of their biological reality.

As I've said in this thread, and which is repeatedly ignored, is that trans men might need single-sex spaces too. They are likely to be safer in a female prison (single-sex, mixed gender identity). A trans woman might prefer a single-gender prison (mixed sex, based on gender identity). Should we ignore the trans men's needs to give the trans women what they ask for, or vice versa? You can't have a space that's both single-sex but mixed-gender and single-gender but mixed-sex.

we must look within ourselves

Look deep within yourself, Clarice ...

I don't think a single transman has been sent to a male prison. Not in the UK anyway. There's a reason for that.
And transmen don't present the same risks to women (as biological women themselves) that transwomen potentially do (as biological males). Thus no issue with them using women's facilities (as is the case already in prisons) a third space, or using the men's facilities.

Ironically, any male, regardless of how they present or feel, who demands entry to female only spaces, knowing full well there are women who feel uncomfortable or fearful about this, are exactly the males who we should agree should not be permitted access.

are exactly the males who we should agree should not be permitted access.

💯

we must look within ourselves

We must look within ourselves as a society to find solutions which accommodate everyone's rights and needs, rather than taking the lazy route of chanting pious slogans to make ourselves feel good while trampling over the existing rights of vulnerable groups.

My dark dark place is called biological and social reality.

My dark dark place is called biological and social reality.

That is very 'deep' Eresh.

@Erikrie

I don't think a single transman has been sent to a male prison. Not in the UK anyway. There's a reason for that. And transmen don't present the same risks to women (as biological women themselves) that transwomen potentially do (as biological males). Thus no issue with them using women's facilities (as is the case already in prisons) a third space, or using the men's facilities.

My point is that the OP and other posters have just said 'support trans people in what they feel is best for them' (I paraphrase).

But when trans men and trans women have conflicting needs or wishes, we still have the problem of single-sex vs single-gender spaces.

Just saying 'support trans people' shows they're not actually willing to engage with the actual problems we are all discussing even when they directly affect trans people. The response upthread was essentially 'oh well the practicalities are too difficult, I don't know' (I paraphrase).

A single-sex space stops being single-sex when one person of the other sex is present (and same for single-gender spaces e.g. a trans man in a woman's prison).

Womens sports obvs...doh

@ifIwerenotanandroid

Gerbil - not all astronauts are white Christians. £10 note is jerked back out of sight

The best I could come up with was a convent, but why would they have lanyards & men's toilets? And nuns can be racially diverse: the only one I knew was Vietnamese.

Many, many nuns are not white. I know of one (with one of the most terrible back stories of abuse from various humans I have ever had to process) who would not say they were solely Christian too. Having worked in the Church of England, not all roles have the requirement to be a practising Christian either. Just - tolerance of those views.