Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

Our first astronaut was a woman btw.

Although she got forgotten.

Same as when Murray won Wimbledon.

I think the majority of the people here do tend to forget about that its ok to have different opinions, nobody needs to be insulted or called out.

And yet, thecatmother, you compared women who wish workplaces to respect single-sex loos to 1950s racists. How is that not insulting or calling-out?

I will support you - and join in - calling out racist nonsense, when it occurs. But dragging a bizarre comparison in just to score points is not on.

@ethelredonagoodday

Thank you *@Binglebong*. I've had wine. 🤦🏼‍♀️😬🤣

A pleasure. It really is bloody ridiculous that we are having to look for linguistic loopholes to anything we say.

OK, so nobody from the other side has addressed the question of the protected characteristic of religion/belief wrt single-sex spaces. They never do. Probably because there is no answer which allows them to have what they want.

to PurgatoryOfPotholes for her post on the topic.

Why does the OP seem surprised that old, white, Christian women (like myself) care about people of other races & religions? I want every female to be able to participate in society as much as she wishes to, to live her life to the fullest. That doesn't come from 'a very dark place'. It comes from caring about women. It's basic feminism.

It's not othering TW to say that a third space will meet their needs while leaving single-sex spaces for those who need them. The greatest good for the greatest number of people, & all that jazz.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

Gerbil - not all astronauts are white Christians. £10 note is jerked back out of sight

The best I could come up with was a convent, but why would they have lanyards & men's toilets? And nuns can be racially diverse: the only one I knew was Vietnamese.

Could be a convent!

There is a Belgian transwoman who has been applying to join a religious order of nuns.

The original article is not in English, but here is some English coverage.

www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2021/04/catholic-church-stunned-by-trans-woman-yearning-to-be-a-nun/

Quotes from interview

“I have always felt like a woman and I was raised very religiously, especially by my mother. All my life I want to go to the monastery. As a man I have had a tough life, now I want peace.

"I asked the nuns of the Order of the Poor Clares. Last week I had contact with the nuns in Brecht, the Trappistines. They could not answer me [about joining] because they did not know whether I could enter as a trans woman. I said I would start a monastic order myself, to which the nuns responded with interest and enthusiasm. If necessary, I will go to the Pope in the Vatican. My calling is stronger than ever.”

@ifiwerenot I meant mixed sex as a third option, I probably didn’t make that clear. Or asking men instead of women to have the mixed space toilets?

Why is it women who have to give up the single sex space?

'However, a lot of views here are shared from a very dark place, as usual, when we strongly feel threatened by somebody's otherness we must look within ourselves.'

What very dark place? I don't understand.

You are saying that what is the everyday experience of women and girls when it comes to men is 'a very dark place'?

How naive are you? The story I posted about the news is horrible but not unusual.

Is that what you were referring to? Or just generally?

You seem to have a big lack of understanding of the reality of life for girls and women.

Where did you grow up? I know that the level of street harassment varies. Of course sexual crimes within families, school, with boyfriends, workmates etc etc is probably pretty much the same in the UK at least.

Did you read the stuff in the news recently about sexual assault and rape in our schools?

You know I assume that the reported sex offences that get prosecuted are at a massive low?

You know the stats around the level of violent and sex offences against women and girls in the UK...?

This 'very dark place' is people's lives.

And what do you mean. 'as usual'. As usual when, in what context. It feels dismissive. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that.

You must be aware though that women and girls are subjected to all sorts of shit from the moment their breasts start growing? I mean as normal. Not paedophiles, it's just normal. Yes it is 'as usual'. So what's your point?

And when I feel threatened by someone's 'otherness' - like what? Like the man who masturbated at me on the tube? Like the men in a car who pulled up and said get in? Like the men who sexually assaulted me in a pub? Etc etc etc...

You are saying that women and girls should never feel threatened by 'otherness'?

Be kind? Give the benefit of the doubt? Think hmm this guy seems creepy but I mustn't be exclusionary?

Good news for you! That's how girls are socialised. Don't make s fuss. Give the benefit of the doubt. Don't be judgemental. Be kind. And polite. Ignore your instincts.
So yay I think? We learn to stay in situations we feel scared or uncomfortable in from when we're young.

Transwomen are not the same as women. Hence the trans. There is something that sets them apart - namely having been born with XY chromosomes and a penis and balls. They can transition to being a transwoman or trans identified male as I prefer, as it is more honest, but they are not the same thing as an XX born female. And they don't fucking belong in female spaces.

However, a lot of views here are shared from a very dark place, as usual, when we strongly feel threatened by somebody's otherness we must look within ourselves.'

Nice try, trying to gaslight us into believing we are to blame for being scared of males.
FFS.

Excellent post @NiceGerbil

However, a lot of views here are shared from a very dark place, as usual, when we strongly feel threatened by somebody's otherness we must look within ourselves.

Straight from the groomers handbook.

Well if I was asked in a job interview about childhood trauma, or if I’d been raped or how many times I’d been sexually assaulted I wouldn’t disclose any of it. In fact I’d lie and say nothing like that had ever happened to me. I’ve never made any official reports, never told my gp so I’d sail through the vetting. 🤷‍♀️

But I could potentially be quite concerned about having to share what legally should be a single sex space with a biological male.

Aah, the old “you must be racist too”.
What a shock.

How many people on this thread have suffered a sexual offense from a transgender woman?

Well, around 40% of trans women who are currently in prison have charges for sexual offences.
Only 19% of male identifying men in prison agave charges for sexual offences.

So I’d imagine, there’s a good chance women have been sexually assaulted by trans women.

Unisex toilets with floor to ceiling enclosure, and a sanitary bin, washbasin & hand drier in each unit, are not the same as turning a single sex facility into mixed sex by virtue of changing the sign on the door or allowing self-id transpeople in.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

CovidCorvid

But you’re not treating those “complaining” women with respect.

I think she's getting round this by not letting ethnic minorities, such as any Muslim or Jewish women, or women who've been sexually assaulted into her vicinity. It sounds very 50s.

Yep just males and compliant, white Christian women only here!! Other applicants need not apply

These posters all follow the same pattern.

New TRA poster:
I have a lovely child/friend who is a transwomen. They wouldn’t hurt a fly and just want to pee. I am welcoming them with open arms into female spaces and so should you.

Women: no, TW are men. They shouldn’t be in female spaces. For privacy, dignity, cultural and religious reasons we want single sex spaces. Not all of us feel as strongly about this as others, but we empathise with those who do.

TRA : they are women

Women: no, they are male, by definition. What about campaigning for 3rd spaces?

TRA : no it has to be women’s spaces, that women have fought for, that belong to women.
Stop being so paranoid, TW won’t hurt you, it never happens.

Women: actually it has happened (cites examples)

TRA: well, you can’t stop male violence so you should just give in to more of it.
This is EXACTLY like racism, homophobia. TW are THE most oppressed and victimised group ever. Be kind. Where is your humanity?

Women: we are subjected to sexual violence from childhood. We are sexually assaulted, physically assaulted and raped and murdered by men.

TRA : transphobic bigots

How many people on this thread have suffered a sexual offense from a transgender woman?

my friend was sexually assaulted by a boy in high school. That boy now has decided he's transgender and is currently being investigated for assaulting a woman in a homeless shelter.

All are white and Christian

So your workplace preaches inclusively whilst excluding BAME people and those from other religious backgrounds. Perhaps your workplace needs some proper diversity training instead of hiring white men dressed as a woman and claiming they're inclusive.

The OP has clarified that they didn't mean their workplace was all white and Christian (the post was written in a muddled and confusing way so it did seem like that was what op was saying).

@nolongersurprised

These posters all follow the same pattern.

New TRA poster:
I have a lovely child/friend who is a transwomen. They wouldn’t hurt a fly and just want to pee. I am welcoming them with open arms into female spaces and so should you.

Women: no, TW are men. They shouldn’t be in female spaces. For privacy, dignity, cultural and religious reasons we want single sex spaces. Not all of us feel as strongly about this as others, but we empathise with those who do.

TRA : they are women

Women: no, they are male, by definition. What about campaigning for 3rd spaces?

TRA : no it has to be women’s spaces, that women have fought for, that belong to women.
Stop being so paranoid, TW won’t hurt you, it never happens.

Women: actually it has happened (cites examples)

TRA: well, you can’t stop male violence so you should just give in to more of it.
This is EXACTLY like racism, homophobia. TW are THE most oppressed and victimised group ever. Be kind. Where is your humanity?

Women: we are subjected to sexual violence from childhood. We are sexually assaulted, physically assaulted and raped and murdered by men.

TRA : transphobic bigots

Nicely summarised!

@JamieLeeCurtains

Jumpy sharky.

Bugger the biscuit; we need this as an emoji.

@MasterStef

The OP has clarified that they didn't mean their workplace was all white and Christian (the post was written in a muddled and confusing way so it did seem like that was what op was saying).

You are quite right MasterStef.

OP came back and clarified though that a person complaining was white and Christian, like that was an important factor.

Hi Op,

The replies have given plenty of reasons and explanations for those opinions.

Could you clearly give your opinion on the following questions which have not been answered by your side:

What is “living as a woman”?
Should trans men be put in male prisons?
Should female rape victims be able to request their medical examinations be conducted by a biologically female health professional?
Religious women who have fought for female only swimming sessions and exercise classes will now not have those provisions, as well as needing female only toilets and changing rooms, what do you propose for them considering many are already very marginalised by society?