Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

would you suggest a trans woman should then use the male toilet?

Well, toilets are a sex based facility.

No TW or TM should use the disabled facilities unless they are disabled. Them using it means people who are disabled (like me) are then excluded from public life as I don't have the option to go elsewhere. They have the option to use sex based facilities

Any company above a certain number of employees should have male, female, disabled and accessible toilets. If necessary, toilets on separate floors (due to women’s/men’s reassigned accessible ) reassignment should not impact the overall balance between there four types of toilets. Transwomen could use the accessible toilets.

You really don’t understand do you? Nice is an inner feeling that we are born with. It cannot be defined of explained. Anyone who identify as nice is nice. Don’t be a gatekeeper. Please be less bigoted.

You.have.hurt.my.feelings. 😭

Just out of interest for those who disagree - would you suggest a trans woman should then use the male toilet? Or just the disabled

I think they should use the toilets of their own biological sex. And that men should be accepting of, and expand the bandwidth of, what it means to be male.

I don't even identify as nice, I'm just the meanest of them all.

WARNING - the content in this link is extremely graphic including images of male genitalia

Here is a thread of evidence of trans women masturbating in women’s toilets. There is no way of knowing which are the lovely transwomen and which are using women’s facilities for their own disgusting agenda. If you let any males in, this is what you accept.

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631396753711104?s=21

Being nice is overrated.

HermioneWeasley do these people clean up their deposits I wonder. Or just leave them there in the hope that women end up sitting in it. 🤔

Just out of interest for those who disagree - would you suggest a trans woman should then use the male toilet? Or just the disabled

A reasonable adjustment would be to provide additional designated unisex toilets as well as sex based toilets. Additional spaces instead of removing all single sex space toilets from all women would be something that met all needs.

@Erikrie if I gave a truthful answer I’d be deleted

Just out of interest for those who disagree - would you suggest a trans woman should then use the male toilet

Toilets are not based on gender, they are based on sex based needs. So, yes. Why wouldn't a male use a male toilet? If the males at that workplace have a violence issue (wasn't one of the posts that transwomen are not safe in male toilets), then that is a real concern. It OP is concerned that the males will be unwelcoming, then that needs to be addressed too.

Why should males use a single sex facility set aside for the needs and privacy of females? Just because they feel like it?

if I gave a truthful answer I’d be deleted

Without a doubt.

I think this bears repeating.

But in the example of prisons, a trans man might want to be in a female-sex prison (ie mixed gender identities) and the trans woman might want to be in a female-gender prison (ie mixed sex). Only one would be able to get what they feel is best for themselves because the presence of the opposite sex stops a space being single-sex, and the presence of the opposite gender identity stops that space being single-gender.

Who should 'win' here where they are in conflict?

Just out of interest for those who disagree - would you suggest a trans woman should then use the male toilet? Or just the disabled

No-one should use the disabled toilets unless they are disabled.

Yes, a TW should use the toilet designated for use on the basis of their sex which is male so therefore they should use the male toilet. Has anyone asked men if they are bothered by TW in male toilets, and if they are ask them why? None of the men I know gives a toss about TW in the men's with them as that is the proper place for them.

In my youth I easily passed as female, it would have caused much more kerfuffle if I had tried to use the gents on those occasions when I was out and about.

The last thing I would have wanted would have been to draw attention to myself.

It was always a bit nerve wracking but no one ever gave me a second look. No one was ever alarmed or offended.

I personally feel unisex facilities as well separate male and female is the way forward.

Just out of interest would all those that object to transitioning women using female facilities extend that to fully transitioned women?

Just out of interest would all those that object to transitioning women using female facilities extend that to fully transitioned women?

What is fully transitioned? Who is going to gatekeep this and make that decision? What if a female person needing single sex facilities still perceives that fully transitioned person as male? This was tried, this was the original intent of GRCs. Female people learned from bitter experience that any means in fact all.

Add. That's how inclusion works. Add all the additional spaces needed. Just leave female people who need it the option of female only spaces and have male born people respect that those female people matter as much as they do. That's it. That's all.

It was always a bit nerve wracking but no one ever gave me a second look. No one was ever alarmed or offended.

That no woman ever chose to let you see a reaction or to make you uncomfortable does not mean they did not notice, or were not alarmed, or were not made to leave the area. You can't assume this. I've discreetly and politely given ground before now, with care not to offend by looking like I was doing it. Women don't challenge or risk offending male people very often when they feel afraid or unsafe, it's not generally a safe thing for them to do.

A fully transitioned woman would be a transman?

Who even if they don't 'pass' (really troubling concept in so many ways) should use the gents, play sports with men, go to a male prison if they are convicted of a crime?

If not why not.

How are you suggesting we see if people are fully transitioned, though? Genital checks?

In reality of course in the instance that someone 100% passes then they will go unnoticed as they always have.

Or at least used to, until loads of people have started looking more closely because of the massive broadening of what trans means.

So it's fucking things up for the smaller number of old school transsexuals, GNC people, and those with physical characteristics more usual in the opposite sex.

There are people who switch between boy mode and girl mode. One uses the facilities at work depending on their mode that day. They also expect everyone to get their pronouns and name right depending on the mode that day. That's really hard for people to do, especially if they have known them for years. This person is in a very senior role.

They have won awards for women in the industry despite being boy mode half the week.

I suspect if they need to have a meeting with clients from various other cultures they prefer to be in boy mode that day.

That's all fine and dandy. Apparently.

The new approach has nothing to do with passing. Or in work, with risk. The employees in the very large offices know the person is trans. They use the gents on boy mode days. How come? Why not fearful?

@NiceGerbil

A fully transitioned woman would be a transman?

Who even if they don't 'pass' (really troubling concept in so many ways) should use the gents, play sports with men, go to a male prison if they are convicted of a crime?

If not why not.

No, perhaps I wasn't clear.
I mean a trans woman who has fully transitioned.
Hormones, surgery etc.
A "woman"

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]How are you suggesting we see if people are fully transitioned, though? Genital checks?

Why would a male insist on using the female toilets knowing that it would mean that some women would then be excluded due to religion or past trauma?

Who would deliberately do that? Regardless of how far along transition they are.

What is this arbitrary line? There is no line. It's not possible to change sex.