Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

Surely a fully transitioned trans woman is simply a "woman"

Why? And physically they may still have male biology that could overpower a woman depending on whether they had benefit of male puberty.

Surely a fully transitioned trans woman is simply a "woman"

Please define “woman”.

They also will not, ever, have the risk of pregnancy that most women have.

In my youth I easily passed as female, it would have caused much more kerfuffle if I had tried to use the gents on those occasions when I was out and about.

The last thing I would have wanted would have been to draw attention to myself.

It was always a bit nerve wracking but no one ever gave me a second look. No one was ever alarmed or offended.

DS2 often gets mistaken for a girl. To the extent he now won't use public toilets as he's been told to "fuck off back to the ladies" more than once. However he also understands that the solution isn't for him to use the ladies. So he avoids them as much as possible. It's really really shit for him. Really shit. But he knows that women matter too.

I'd campaign happily for a 3rd space. But not if we lose women's spaces in the process.

Not suggesting anything, I just wonder where people draw the line.
Surely a fully transitioned trans woman is simply a "woman"

The line is male or female. Two sexes. That's it. No?

ImASoulMan

Thanks for your post.

What about transwomen who don't pass? This is about norms etc across society. Separating facilities into those that look like women (is that biological characteristics, presentation, a mix?) and those who don't is a massive problem. It will disadvantage transwomen who don't pass. It will mean some female people will have to use the gents, I assume. If their bodies and/ or styling didn't meet... Some criteria... Set by who?

You felt nervous. Why? What did you think was going to happen? I've been in plenty of situations where there was a man looking man in the ladies and the women all looked at each other and kept an eye out. Women are socialised not to make a fuss. It's why schoolgirls stay sitting next to creeps on the bus who are saying all sorts of shit, as an example.

I mean yes if the bloke was being really weird or hassling a girl etc then maybe. But in general not. And of course if a male person has already contravened norms he is probably, possibly. A bit dangerous.

Anyway you passed so what were you actually nervous about?

I've also used the gents in various situations, and also walked into them by accident more than once. No kerfuffle. What would be the kerfuffle? And this was when I was 16 and had qualities that made me a target of street harassment (there are many such qualities).

So what were you nervous of?
What do you think would happen in the gents in a workplace?
What's it got to do with passing? That's unfair on a lot of people?

And toilets are always the thing mentioned as they seem trivial. Which is interesting, because toilet provision has been a massive issue for women for an awfully long time and around the world is a major issue.

But anyway. If one thing says ok gender not sex. Then that's the thin end of the wedge. If it's conceded that this thing that was single sex is now single gender, then the arguments for prisons etc are undermined.

Also there are loads of genders. I don't have a gender. If it's done on gender where do I go? It seems like a silly question. But things must surely be logical. Or not? Just pick where you 'feel more comfortable'? How does it all work in practice?

@GCAcademic

Surely a fully transitioned trans woman is simply a "woman"

Please define “woman”.

Well you know, adults who aren't men !

Generally have boobs and vaginas

The point is, if you let one male in on the basis of his feelings, you let all males in.

Things are either sex segregated or they’re not

Women are adult human females, yes. Boobs and vaginas are sex characteristics. A woman without breasts (or without a vagina, for that matter) is still a woman.

@Imasoulman

If women are people who aren’t men you’re going to have to define men.

“Boobs and vaginas” - are you talking about female people? Or male people who have cosmetic surgery to have silicone implants and wounds that need permanent dilation?

My definitions - woman - adult human female
Man- adult human male.

Female - of the sex that produces large immobile gametes
Male - of the sex that produces small mobile gametes.

So if you are male you are not a woman.

'No, perhaps I wasn't clear.
I mean a trans woman who has fully transitioned.
Hormones, surgery etc.
A "woman"'

And your last post.

'Well you know, adults who aren't men !

Generally have boobs and vaginas'

I assume you're here in good faith.

You really need to look into women's history globally to understand why those two statements are so offensive to women.

We have always everywhere been seen as men but lesser. And this was codified in law. We have been property. In some areas we still effectively are. We have been oppressed horrifically around the world for as long as we know and in many places still are in many different ways.

Well you know, adults who aren't men !

Generally have boobs and vaginas

What an incredibly telling response. Why don’t you have a think about the way you’ve phrased that. It speaks volumes about the ways in which you perceive women.

We are not 'non men'
We are not sort of men but lesser
We do not have different inferior brains
We are on average smaller and less strong as defined IE by men to mean muscles and fighting
However we have the strength to keep going despite all this. We can grow and birth babies. We have an awful lot of stamina. We just keep fucking going. All around the world for always. Whatever the system. The unpaid unnoticed work of women, millions upon billions of women has propped up, been invaluable to the male ruled societies that took us for granted...

Generally have boobs and vaginas

Is that all that a woman is? Is that what being a woman means to you? That's the only criteria?

@ArabellaScott

Women are adult human females, yes. Boobs and vaginas are sex characteristics. A woman without breasts (or without a vagina, for that matter) is still a woman.

My point exactly, thank you

I don't even know where to go next.

We are not non men. We are whole people in our own right who are different to men. Not lesser. Not somehow programmed to do all the fucking hard graft while the men sit back/ earn the money.

Ok.

We are NOT tits and cunt. Right? What a thing to say.

@GCAcademic

Well you know, adults who aren't men !

Generally have boobs and vaginas

What an incredibly telling response. Why don’t you have a think about the way you’ve phrased that. It speaks volumes about the ways in which you perceive women.

I apologise, that was meant to be tongue in cheek.

And for someone who seems to have transitioned young and considered themselves to pass, and says 'when they were young' so a while back. Years then of moving through society as a transwoman. And one who passed when young.

THAT is what you say?

Tits and cunt.

I answered before in good faith. I think you are probably posting in good faith.

Ok.

Can you see why what you have said is the exact view of women and girls that men have? Boobs. Holes.

Can you see why women would not react well to that?

If you are here in good faith as I think you are. What are your thoughts? Can you understand why statements like that would make women. Frankly. Very angry?

Look I don't disagree with any of you over safe spaces etc.

I am trans although have never transitioned nor am j likely to in the future.

I said many times before that unisex facilities are the way forward, I'm against trans women competing in womens sports etc.

My original post was just recounting my relevant experiences in the context of this debate.

I'm not the enemy here.

I said many times before that unisex facilities are the way forward, I'm against trans women competing in womens sports

Unisex facilities make women unsafe. Why would you want that? Are you are transwoman?

@Erikrie

I said many times before that unisex facilities are the way forward, I'm against trans women competing in womens sports

Unisex facilities make women unsafe. Why would you want that? Are you are transwoman?

As well as single sex facilities

As well as single sex facilities

Ok

@FromHereToModernity

Thankfully the Disabled toilets (depicting someone in a wheelchair - needs to be changed I think) were changed to Accessible toilets so that anyone could use them.

I'm disabled. I'm fed up of having to give spaces away that were fought long and hard for. Just thought I'd mention that, because perhaps you think we're all fine with this. We're not.

I agree with you.

Disabled toilets were set up for a reason. That reason has not gone away. They are not for everyone and they are not a 'third space'.

What's the difference between disabled and accessible? I feel a bit ignorant on the terminology. Sorry.

You used the women's toilets when you were young though?

You considered yourself to pass.

I assume you wore makeup skirt whatever and kept your head down.

When you say you never transitioned what do you mean? Current school of thought is that as gender ID is in your head, and it's not right to judge someone on how they look. You are trans and you can and should use the ladies.

Why did you used to though? How long ago? I'm nearly 50 if that helps. I don't really understand.

How do you feel about the posts responding to your comment? You see it as tongue in cheek. Women don't because the fact is tits and cunt is what we are seen as by too many men. And we have a really bad time because of it

I don't want to bring this down but earlier in BBC I saw a news story about 29.. TWENTY NINE men being arrested for abusing one girl. ONE girl. For 7 years from age 13. That happened because they had cocks and she had tits and a cunt.

Can you see why, well. I was going to say people. Me. Tonight I'm angry. I don't feel like being nice. Your post was crass in the extreme.

Can you understand that?