Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

@CokeDrinker

It depends on if they have had the operation or not. I don't feel it's right to use women's toilets if you still have the male anatomy. Women's safe spaces should be for women. It's about safeguarding and making women feel safe.

Who's going to police that then? "Scuse me person of unidentified sex/gender, you look a bit a man to me. Can I see your fanny before you use the ladies?"

I was given a rainbow pride lanyard around 2 years ago. There's no way I would wear it now. The whole self-ID issue and suppression of biological women makes me think I should burn it.

It's unreasonable to make anything dependent on genital surgery.

It's hugely invasive, comes with a host of risks. Loss of sexual function. Infection. The groin area is a massive centre of nerves and blood vessels. It must be incredibly painful. I can't imagine recovery is fast. And the results are not always what was hoped for.

To make any kind of change to say surgery= this that the other is to say if you do this you're a 'real' woman and that's just not right to push anyone that way.

And in the end a male doesn't become female by having those parts removed.

@Snugglepumpkin

I 100% support LGB rights & would defend them if required.

I 100% do not support any of the other letters or think they have anything in common with LGB.

I 0% support the idea of men in the womens toilets.

Likewise

Some spaces are single sex.
If someone doesn't feel comfortable in the spaces for their sex, they can ask for a third space.

In fact a load of arguments would just disappear if the activists campaigned for third spaces, because that is something women could get behind.

I’m L. That has some things in common with GB but nothing in common with T.

I want single sex spaces.

@thecatmother

And one more thought. This lady is the first transgender person that I have ever met, therefore I treat her with respect, just like I would another human being. I am in my mid 40s. It makes me wonder , how many of people so vehemently protesting here have actually met a person (male or female) who is in their transition, and would you treat them with such hostility...

Yes, I have met a trans woman and of course I treated her with respect just as I would any human being.

However, I also believe in the preservation of single sex spaces and I disagree vehemently with the current trend towards linguistically erasing the concept of biological women.

Infact a load of arguments would just disappear if the activists campaigned for third spaces, because that is something women could get behind

Absolutely

But many trans activists or the ones that seem to be driving changes don’t care about how real women feel they just want to tell us that they are women and we should shut the fuck is and accept this

It’s simply male entitlement something you would feel they would want to give up now they are women

Transwomen are biological men. Male pattern violence does not reduce just because a male changes their gender to female. . The rate of violence remains exactly the same. Why should women have to share with some biological males who Identify as female gender, but not those who keep their male gender. As gender changes nothing apart from appearance.

Of course I support LGBTQ rights. I also support my own rights. What's your point? Single-sex toilets are for women only and are a legal, societal and moral necessity. The 'how many transwomen do you know?' question is a red herring, as if women are supposed to be guilt-tripped into giving up our rights, privacy, dignity and wants and roll over on request. No, I matter as well you know. Women are equal human beings with our own class interests, not doormat support units.

Females need sex segregated spaces because we are smaller, weaker and slower which makes us vulnerable to male violence because they are bigger, stronger and faster.

We do not need them because we wear dresses, lipstick and like to talk about hand bags. We do not have them because we have long hair and use female pronouns.

A male transitioning to “living as a woman” does not rid them of the biological advantages from which females need protecting.

Sorry, the question was lost in the sea of answers. I mean, in between, as far as I have learnt now, it takes a few years for the operation. My colleague goes by female name, lives her life as a female, so far so transparent. I am not close enough to her to ask more intimate details.

I'm not sure how a male person can "live life as a female", can you elaborate on what you mean? Presuming you don't just mean "they said they were now female and call themselves a "female name" so they are"? Or maybe you do?

Females need sex segregated spaces because we are smaller, weaker and slower

And in the case of loos, because we have female bodies that mean we need the san bins that the men don’t, need the cubicles that the men don’t, need the clean seats that the men (apparently) don’t, and actually need the loos more often.

We need more loos, full stop. Why should women share scarce single-sex facilities with adult males?

LGB is about which sex you’re attracted to. T is about what gender you identify as. They’re completely different concepts so the idea of LGBTQ rights as one thing doesn’t make sense.

it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man

So it's a man. Who does not need to use female toilets as he does not and will never menstruate. No matter how much he likes wearing female clothing.

I work with some devout Muslim women who need to use the toilets to wash before prayer. If male bodied people started using the toilets, they would have a choice between working and faith. So by being so inclusive companies are excluding women. How does that make sense?

Apparently it doesn't even necessarily do that anymore.

Indeed. Which creates a problem. What is the difference between a man, and a transwomen who retains their penis (as the majority do) apart from, but not always, their outward appearance? And following on, particularly for those who don't change appearance outwardly, how do we know if it's a woman using the female spaces, or a man? Or are women's toilets now being declared mixed sex. Does this mean men's toilets are now mixed sex too?

As a disabled person, I hate that being offered as an alternative to transwomen especially if I can't get in when I need it.
Being trans is not a disability either.

LGB is about which sex you’re attracted to. T is about what gender you identify as. They’re completely different concepts so the idea of LGBTQ rights as one thing doesn’t make sense.

I find the trend towards referring to a gay man or lesbian in history etc as "LGBT" irritating, as if they were all four things at once and that everyone that applies to buys into their being bundled together as a package, when I know from many of my friends that that isn't true.

There is no benefit to women in including males in female spaces or categories
It makes the space mixed sex and renders female categories and statistics useless
It shouldn't be considered in regard to one gentle transwoman. It needs to be considered in the wider context
Do you want to lose female as a distinct sex category and who will that benefit?

All that heavily implies a sexual predator element as normal people don’t get naked unexpectedly in front of colleagues in toilets

People are also talking about changing rooms...

@Lysistratathereindeer

I work with some devout Muslim women who need to use the toilets to wash before prayer. If male bodied people started using the toilets, they would have a choice between working and faith. So by being so inclusive companies are excluding women. How does that make sense?

Non-GC posters don't care about this issue and it enrages me. When I asked a v pro-trans friend about it the response was 'they need to just get over it'. Racist. As if Muslim or indeed any other women should give up the spaces created for them for someone else's unnecessary want.