Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

[mrsjg]

Placemarking

[Pixxie7]

I think that despite all the mistakes re the pandemic, Boris has taken the credit for the success of the vaccination programme despite it really being the success of the scientists and the nhs.
Labour hadn’t really got a real agenda so people are focusing on the here and now rather than the past.

[JudgeJ]

@Peregrina

A lot more students in Falmouth these days than fishermen.

Are the students actually back in Falmouth or still expected to study from home? If the later, I strongly suspect that not all that many would bother to organise a postal vote. I could be wrong, of course.

Manuy students cheat to vote twice, in their student area and in their parents' area. Until the voting lists are centrally collated this will continue to happen/

[Alsohuman]

I wouldn't call PFI 'record investment'. More like an eternal ball and chain that is taking much needed cash from the NHS budget forevermore

More investment than any other government before or since. PFI was a sensible concept appallingly executed because the NHS had no experience in contract negotiation and was too arrogant to buy it in.

[Onetoomuch]

Ah yes and making it compulsory to show ID when voting, another policy designed to hinder disadvantaged voters from voting.

[JudgeJ]

[quote Onetoomuch]@JudgeJ evidence ?[/quote]
Of?

[Againstmachine]

@bellaisle
I can't even begin to imagine what the people of Hartlepool think that the Tories will actually do for them.

That's what you don't get people vote for change, if your life is at rock bottom then something different is a change.

[supermoonrising]

@Letsgetreadytocrumble
Khalid Mahmood has absolutely nailed it. Hopefully more like him will follow...

With all respect, I dont think he's nailed it, I think thats simplistic drivel.

1. No major Labour politician has been obsessed with Churchill's statue. As far as senior politicians and statue obsessions go , its 90% been from the Tory side.
   
   
2. Why are millions of urban Labour voters not considered "ordinary people" and yet leafy South East England dwelling Tory voters presumably are "ordinary people"? Are SNP voters ordinary people? What about Greens? Can you oppose the Tories and still be ordinary?
   
   
3. This idea that their are millions of "traditional working class" who have been betrayed by Labour is a BS non-starter. Most Brexit voters were middle class. But schools as there has been a leak of lower social class voters away from Labour, it started way back in the Blair years. Where the Tories HAVE been hammering Labour is in the over 50s and particularly over 65s. Thats more pronounced than ever.

[InterstellarOverdrive]

@JudgeJ

BBC?? Left?? I'm not sure what planet you're on but it isn't this one.

[Bluntness100]

I actually think the issue stammer faces, is Boris is a very loud forceful personality. And stammer is not. He’s a relatively polite quiet guy, and he just looks dull and inept when he’s going up against Boris’S huge personality .

Love Boris or hate him, he steam rollers over everything and everyone. He gives not a shit about the rules. He gives not a shit about playing nicely. Christ thr man lied to the queen. He’s shagged for Britain and abused his position. He had number ten done at someone else’s expense. And he literally gives not a flying fuck.

But he gets the job done. Brexit, vaccines, he got it done. And the fact he’s a bit maverick, a rule breaker, ultimately a lot of people quite like. And that’s why it’s hard for stammer to compete. He’s dealing with a huge personality who doesn’t give a shit, and who will do as he pleases, but still delivers.

[GlassBoxSpectacular]

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Khalid Mahmood has absolutely nailed it. Hopefully more like him will follow...

But as this thread demonstrates, there are legions who don’t want to hear it.

They’d rather demonise voters for being ‘thick’ than address why the party is losing support at a rate of knots.

[supermoonrising]

@JudgeJ
The Left have the BBC etc behind them.
It boggles the mind how people can still believe this after how Corbyn was treated by the BBC.

For the 99th time, the BBC is PRO BRITISH ESTABLISHMENT, not left or right per se (though for this reason usually leaning comfortably Conservative). They endlessly parrot the woke agenda stuff as a distraction from this and to make them feel better about their privilege.

Corbyn was as firmly anti-establishment as you could get: Hugely critical of Israel, pro (moderate) wealth distribution, pro denationalisation of certain industries, anti Royal family, anti nuclear weapons. Pro Irish unification (when the time is right). And on and on. Hence his demonisation by the BBC - more than any other media outlet. More than Sky. More than ITV. More than Channel 4. The BBC coverage of Labour under Corbyn was giving Murdoch's papers a run for their money.

[hamstersarse]

@supermoonrising

I get what you are saying about the urban dwelling labour voters and how it implies they are not worthy / ordinary and it reeks of some sort of double bluff virtue signaling around the 'poor and needy'. Like he can only gain virtue by being associated with the proper working class, not these 'fakey socialists' and by doing that has insinuated a whole group of people are irrelevant. It's consistently tiresome when you are caught in the trap of trying to look good, a hiding to nothing.

Just say what you think and believe in...and things would be much more straightforward.

[Bluntness100]

@Pixxie7

I think that despite all the mistakes re the pandemic, Boris has taken the credit for the success of the vaccination programme despite it really being the success of the scientists and the nhs.
Labour hadn’t really got a real agenda so people are focusing on the here and now rather than the past.

That’s too simplistic, the vaccine program was way way more than scientists and the nhs, from contracts, orders, logistics, supply, funding, everything. We are way ahead because of the comprehensive approach that involved many elements. The army for example is in charge of supply of the vaccines. The logistics.

What Boris is good at, is he gets the right people in to do the job. But that’s what leaders are supposed to do. Find out who can do it best snd get them in and let them do it.

[AllDoneIn]

Labour have utterly, utterly lost their way. They are too busy fighting each other to fight the Tories. Ditto championing the rights of blue-haired 22 year olds who want to be a boy today, a girl tomorrow and a unicorn on Sunday. I cannot in good conscience vote for them when they are happy to let a man with a penis stroll into my changing room at the gym and will accuse me of a hate crime for saying that's not acceptable. They lost working class votes years ago; now even their core middle class female voters have gone because they would rather pander to identity fascists than work for the people they are supposed to represent.

[HeraInTheHereAndNow]

Watching with genuine bafflement 🤦‍♀️

[RHTawneyonabus]

@JudgeJ it’s perfectly legal to be registered in two places and isn’t just confined to students but second home owners, people who work away, all sorts of others.

It is obviously illegal to vote in twice in the Same election such as a general. But voting in two sets of locals given that you are a resident of both areas and would want a say in what happens there is perfectly fine.

[supermoonrising]

@AllDoneIn
Ditto championing the rights of blue-haired 22 year olds who want to be a boy today, a girl tomorrow and a unicorn on Sunday.
Perhaps stop reading the Mail

[hamstersarse]

@Bluntness100

I actually think the issue stammer faces, is Boris is a very loud forceful personality. And stammer is not. He’s a relatively polite quiet guy, and he just looks dull and inept when he’s going up against Boris’S huge personality .

Love Boris or hate him, he steam rollers over everything and everyone. He gives not a shit about the rules. He gives not a shit about playing nicely. Christ thr man lied to the queen. He’s shagged for Britain and abused his position. He had number ten done at someone else’s expense. And he literally gives not a flying fuck.

But he gets the job done. Brexit, vaccines, he got it done. And the fact he’s a bit maverick, a rule breaker, ultimately a lot of people quite like. And that’s why it’s hard for stammer to compete. He’s dealing with a huge personality who doesn’t give a shit, and who will do as he pleases, but still delivers.

I am interested in this analysis.

It's really Jungian. We are such a regulated and sterile society that Boris represents part of the collective shadow - all of us have this wild side in us, and as Jung would say, whenever there is someone who 'spikes' you ( he actually would say triggers....but we all know what happened to that word) then it is worth paying attention because it is most likely some part of you that you are not expressing fully.

In essence, Boris allows us a connection with our shadow side where we don't give a shit - adultery, flippancy, general maverickness

The solution to Boris is for us all to be a bit more in touch with our naughty side, we wouldn't be so attracted to it then!

[Temp023]

Keir Starmer always make me think of Max Headroom, anyone remember him?

[Temp023]

When there is any sort of opposition I will probably vote for it.

[mustlovegin]

People are allowed to think differently OP. That's what's 'going on'

[btwwhichonespink]

[quote supermoonrising]@Letsgetreadytocrumble
Khalid Mahmood has absolutely nailed it. Hopefully more like him will follow...

With all respect, I dont think he's nailed it, I think thats simplistic drivel.

1. No major Labour politician has been obsessed with Churchill's statue. As far as senior politicians and statue obsessions go , its 90% been from the Tory side.
   
   
2. Why are millions of urban Labour voters not considered "ordinary people" and yet leafy South East England dwelling Tory voters presumably are "ordinary people"? Are SNP voters ordinary people? What about Greens? Can you oppose the Tories and still be ordinary?
   
   
3. This idea that their are millions of "traditional working class" who have been betrayed by Labour is a BS non-starter. Most Brexit voters were middle class. But schools as there has been a leak of lower social class voters away from Labour, it started way back in the Blair years. Where the Tories HAVE been hammering Labour is in the over 50s and particularly over 65s. Thats more pronounced than ever.[/quote]
   

1. Sadiq Khan has set up a committee to look into abolishing statues. It was the 'Left', Lib Dem/Labour that supported the BLM protests and subsequently the attacks on statues. Last year, all Labour councils committed to reviewing all local statues labour.org.uk/press/labour-councils-to-review-all-statues-and-commemorations-in-their-areas-steve-reed/
   

1. Eh?
   

1. It's not a BS non-starter. It is the fundamental, core issue that Labour face. They do not offer anything to working class people anymore. I wouldn't say that the voters who voted Brexit in Sunderland, Hartlepool and all the other traditional working class areas would identify with your assertion they are middle class. It is these people that feel betrayed by Labour, but not just on Brexit. These councils have run cities into the ground. High streets decimated. Vanity investments in new, state of the art council buildings whilst cutting services to disabled children because of 'Tory Austerity'. I could go on forever. And before you argue back, I speak from experience, not from what I read in the Guardian.

[AllDoneIn]

@supermoonrising have never read it, but I read the feminism pages here and see the woke bs Labour mps reply with when women constituents express their concerns about the eradication of their rights and protections under the Equality Act.