Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

He told the BBC's Nick Robinson people do not know what the party stands for and that Sir Keir must bring back Jeremy Corbyn.

OMFG 🙈

@Moonstone1234

Heard McDonnell say they need to go further left to win... what a stupid, totally out of touch thing to say.

But don’t worry apparently Abbott will be giving her view shortly.. must listen to that one.

I do wonder though if some in the LP don’t actually want to win, they just want to moan and complain and not offer anything very much. Much easier to judge rather than be judged.

Yes I heard that and thought the same as you!

They are like the gift that keeps on giving to the Tories! Just keep making the same mistakes over and over again...

“CormoranStrike

And -please help me understand the “trying to erase what a woman is” argument. I know it is about trans rights, but if a biological women is transitioning to a man, and wants the legal right to be a man, is that not “they don’t know what a man is” too?”

But if a biological man transitions to become a ‘woman’ and then becomes one of the few women labour MPs; if one of the very very few apparently women judges actually lived a great deal of her life as a man; if a man becomes a ‘woman’ after committing a sex crime and then goes into a women’s prison; if a man becomes a ‘woman’ commits a crime and that is recorded as a woman’s crime; if a man becomes a ‘woman’ and then takes part in a women’s team in the Olympics; if a man becomes a ‘woman’ so has the right to use women’s changing rooms and lavatories/or all such places become mixed so as to avoid the question; if birth certificates no longer represent reality because the birth sex can be changed later; if children as young as four are being identified as trans by their parents and given follow up hormones as soon as possible and no one is stopping it; if the House of Lords had to argue for the word ‘mother’ to be allowed (the word women was not allowed) in a bill for women MPs to have time off work when they have a baby; when gender based rights are becoming more important than sec based protections......... when society is starting to use terms like chest feeding and vagina-hackers, then idiotic woke policies do matter.

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

You’ve completely missed the point

If. InterStellar’s assessment of Labour leaders are indicative of those in the party, it looks like a no hoper of a recovery anytime soon.

Sorry to keep bringing this up but the absolute hypocrisy is hard to stomach so here I go again. Corbyn was not bringing about ‘ real, positive change’ unless you consider sitting over a culture of harassment of Jewish members, political interference in complaints of racism and a judgement of that made by the EHRC. There was a culture of racist bullying on a shameful scale. I will continue to pop up every time some other apologist starts eulogising over good old Corbyn!
My first ever cross against a Tory candidate was to ensure he did not get in.

To be honest though, I had been feeling like I was ‘wrong’ in Labour eyes for quite awhile as many others have said. Grammar schools gave me and my sons opportunity to access a better life ( the life that a lot of those keen to close them take for granted). I have worked in Faith Schools and seen the impact in deprived areas. I own my home and don’t think I should be forced out of their home by those clamouring for wealth or land taxes. I think women only spaces are important. I don’t think a lot in Labour want people like me. I have met several of these judgemental types in real life and invariably they are from a background of much more privilege.
I don’t like the insults against Angela Raynor on here. She has done well against quite tough odds and that should be congratulated not mocked. I’m not keen only because I think she is quite good friends with Rebecca Long Bailey. The company you keep does say something of your values.

@Riddly

You have to remember that it was Hartlepool, who, during the Napoleonic Wars, hanged a shipwrecked monkey as a French spy? They seem to be ‘voting for Brexit’, now that the Ukip/ Brexit party has gone, they believe that Johnson has delivered...

I'm hoping you are joking. That's a legend, there's no actual evidence it happened. And if you aren't joking, it's yet another sneering, superior post which shows exactly why Labour are haemorrhaging voters.

Vagina - havers

Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

It really is this kind of careful listening, empathy and nuanced debate that will bring people round to your cause.

@TheKeatingFive

Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

It really is this kind of careful listening, empathy and nuanced debate that will bring people round to your cause.

Brilliant!

@IntermittentParps

But he knows what a woman is. Which woman? The one he cheated on while she was having cancer treatment? The one he had a 'love child' with who was obliged to keep it quiet? The one(s) he giggled at for looking like 'letterboxes' and 'bank robbers'?

Yes he has made mistakes, but you could argue that makes him more relatable to some people. None of us are perfect.

I think labour spend too much time on character assassination and too little on rooting out their own problems.

He’s the prime minister not the pope or the arch bishop of Canterbury. He needs to be able to communicate to a wide variety of different people and he’s pretty good at that I think , especially on the campaign trail. Labour politicians can come across as if they think their core voters are stupid and tend to patronise them.

Grammar schools gave me and my sons opportunity to access a better life

Yes, but I am the product of a 1960s grammar school, and I can assure you that there weren't many working class children there. Interestingly enough, there were a couple of very well regarded single sex secondary modern schools at the poorer end of town. There was an absolutely dire one at the posh end of town. I don't know whether that's coincidence or not because the parents in the posh end got their kids into the grammar and the Sec Mod at their end was left to rot. I think it did have some bearing - the parents at the council house end never expected their children to get into the grammars which were seen, with some justification, as being snobbish and out of touch, but they did want their kids to get a good education.

@Peregrina

My niece is self employed and did receive money . It was slow but she is getting it .

I said it was not perfect . And I thought the accusations were he put business before life and did not want lock down ? Make up your minds .

The Tory has won the Tees Valley Mayor vote again as well. I think he’s a dick however he does appear to be getting things done.

@Congressdingo

Bafoonist. I might report you .

One of my criticisms of Johnson is the flip flopping. E.g. telling schools that they had to open after Christmas and after one day telling them to shut. For heaven's sake, make a decision based on the best evidence and stick to it, until better evidence supersedes it.

Then we had the Cummings saga - the Tories including Johnson, couldn't make enough excuses for him. Until they fell out, and now Cummings is busy dishing the dirt.

I can't help feeling that in the last decade, other issues to economic ones have found a space and attracted support. The old style socialist/ capitalist construct doesn't seem to be relevant.

We've had Brexit: resistance to being told what to do about laws by an outsider organisation. We've had ecological issues, majorly: these can be taken on to suit agendas. We have had wokism; we've had anti-being told what to do by central government - that is the anti-mask/ anti-vaccine protesters, obviously, and also devolutionists who want greater powers for Scots and Welsh and local councils and not to be told what to do.

It almost seems as though the Universal Credit and tax credits, and even NHS may be working ok, and doing a sound job to level up and top up people's incomes, because I'm just not hearing outraged voices about a dire NHS, or low wages. If making ends meet were an issues in Hartlepool, wouldn't people vote Labour? I would ( and do) if hard- up because the social equality agenda makes Labour a better bet: even if you're not sure what the policies will be, you can assume.

The young seem to be poorer compared with years ago, and struggle to get the jobs they want and to get on the housing ladder. But everybody else - are they?

I'm even wondering whether the rise in social media means people don't do so much physically: eat out, dance out, date out, and so don't spend money on clothes and entertainment and don't need to. I actually don't understand the Hatlepool-Tory phenomenon.

I feel we are into a populist era where strong character make impact and attract votes, so Kier Starmer is not looking like a leader, at all, to me. He looks unsure, apologetic; his body language doesn't match his rhetoric .

I think a policy on cheaper housing, really well-constructed and planned to be large-scale would unite woke and traditional working class, in seeking it, anyway.

Yes he has made mistakes That's a fairly generous assessment
but you could argue that makes him more relatable to some people. None of us are perfect. No, indeed, but many of us do not have affairs when our partners are ill/commit to print casual Islamophobia. For starters.

Yes he has made mistakes, but you could argue that makes him more relatable to some people. None of us are perfect.

Yeah, he's such a relatable chap.

Yes, but I am the product of a 1960s grammar school, and I can assure you that there weren't many working class children there.

I am also the product of a 1960s grammar, and the vast majority of pupils were from working class or lower middle class families, because that was the nature of the local population. The borough didn't have a 'posh end'.

One of the sec mods had a very highly regarded headmaster who used to send a handful of pupils on to our sixth form each year.

There were also two very successful technical schools.

Women are voting tory because oftrans rights???

No. We're not voting Labour to defend WOMEN'S rights. Imagine trying to erase us as if we don't exist or can't even have our own interests!

You’ve completely missed the point

They apparently missed all of their biology classes at school too, so 🤷‍♀️

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

No. Trans women are trans women and trans men are trans men. Until you accept this and respect this, you will continue to be surprised by election results. Being a woman is not a feeling. It is a material reality. It is the basis of our oppression and ignoring that is ignoring our oppression.

@Peregrina

One of my criticisms of Johnson is the flip flopping. E.g. telling schools that they had to open after Christmas and after one day telling them to shut. For heaven's sake, make a decision based on the best evidence and stick to it, until better evidence supersedes it.

Then we had the Cummings saga - the Tories including Johnson, couldn't make enough excuses for him. Until they fell out, and now Cummings is busy dishing the dirt.

But against the fact that a year in from the start of the pandemic his government managed to invest in, order and vaccinate half the population with minimal fuss, it’s small pickings.

Labour have no policymakers

Corbyn had some IMO good polices. US Biden administration doing similar. Meanwhile Tories will do nothing to address:

Wages in real terms have barely risen since 2010.

Those with assets, not income, fared much better since 2010.

The inflated housing market affecting young people badly in many areas of U.K. Continued lack of council housing.

Huge cuts to disability benefits, social care and legal aid since 2010 due to govt imposed austerity which didn’t work, growth sluggish, national debt risen considerably, though richest did fine.

Increasing fragmentation of NHS and lowest funding from govt % wise since set up over 75 years ago.

Implementing a green new deal.

A well known hard left activist on here used to proudly declare how her DM wanted to " burn down waitrose", and how she had raised her own DC to be open minded and LEFT like her!

“Our Founder signed away his personal ownership rights in a growing retail company to allow future generations of Partners to take forward his 'experiment in industrial democracy”

What? This Waitrose? Where you’re not an employee, you’re a partner. Goodness, yes, if I were a left wing, potential arsonist, I’d definitely start with the kind of company that looks after and values it’s employees, sorry partners.