Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

Wow, your stunning argument has won us all over, sign me up to the Labour Party forthwith.

Surely it's not sensible to use terms like 'working people': most adults work, don't they + that's everybody. What a ill-judged thing for the Labour leader to say. If you use the word 'trust', you surely have to explain what the fear is that Labour will do? You could blame it on Covid and a workable response being found by the government to an unprecedented crisis - but why stand up and say people don't trust us because we hold committee meetings.

The poor Labour showing could be due to the power of newspapers and any infiltrating they can do of social media, I suppose.

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

Well, having read many PPs, I’m pretty sure they’re referring to the erosion of Women’s sex based rights, and not to Trans rights. But, nevertheless, with your intelligently analytical and laser sharp, incisive argument, you’ve definitely won me over.

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

And it’s claptrap like this that’s leading to women deserting Labour, Lib Dems and Greens in droves.

We can go back to being a declining country or we can take a chance on a man with a vision.

A vision of his own and his friends’ power and prosperity that has resulted in many small businesses struggling and going under because of the disaster that is Brexit.

Fundamentally, I think most people’s lives are all right. Most people are happy enough with their schools, happy enough with access to GP/health services and it appears expensive housing issues don’t affect a majority - yet. This doesn’t feed in to the Labour narrative of everything is double shit with added Tory Brexit (TM) Shit on top.

The vaccine roll out has been a worldwide success, and I think most people take the attitude that other EU countries are not being accurate with death toll reporting. I admit to living in a well off part of the country, but very few people know anyone who’s died from COVID.

After the millionth refrain of labour don't listen let's have some positivity. How can labour engage better with ordinary people then ? What can they learn from the tories ? Labour has been asking for more investment in public services for years, why are people believing that the tories will deliver now after 11 years in power ?

@Zotter

Labour have no policymakers

Corbyn had some IMO good polices. US Biden administration doing similar. Meanwhile Tories will do nothing to address:

Wages in real terms have barely risen since 2010.

Those with assets, not income, fared much better since 2010.

The inflated housing market affecting young people badly in many areas of U.K. Continued lack of council housing.

Huge cuts to disability benefits, social care and legal aid since 2010 due to govt imposed austerity which didn’t work, growth sluggish, national debt risen considerably, though richest did fine.

Increasing fragmentation of NHS and lowest funding from govt % wise since set up over 75 years ago.

Implementing a green new deal.

I forgot to add these two

• Inequality is growing wider and wider. In 2009, the combined wealth of the UK's richest 1,000 people was £258billion. By 2020 they had £742billion* - an INCREASE of £484billion. As well as investing in propaganda, many of them fund the Conservatives.

• foodbanks and zero hour contracts.

Peregrina

For example, in 2019 Boris said that he planned to 'cement the UK as a science superpower'. You can't deny that his government hasn't made leaps and bounds in science during this pandemic. I heard someone on the radio the other day say we are now the global leaders on genome sequencing and that Boris had said he is going to make it the case that companies have no other option but to come here and invest in scientific R&D as a result of the level of excellence of this industry.

You can't deny this isn't happening. This is the kind of thing I want to see in my country for our future generations. Great, interesting jobs for our kids. Imagine if this happened in other industries too. Of course, he is not going to get everything right, but I'd rather give him the chance to so stuff like this than go back to our old ways which were getting us nowhere. For me, it is make or break time.

Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

Oh of course! Silly me. I didn't believe mammals could change sex, but now you've added "Get over it", you've convinced me.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants Many people on here complain about access to gps, NHS services etc crikey one of the most frequently quoted reasons for brexit was poor access to gps and NHS, overcrowding in schools, not enough jobs for british people. Things are bit shit in certain areas, underinvestment, appalling opportunities for young people, low pay employment. You admit you live in a well of part of the country ?

Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

You need to "get over" the fact that some women do not accept this and nor should they be made to.

I think most people take the attitude that other EU countries are not being accurate with death toll reporting.

What does this mean?

Oh of course! Silly me. I didn't believe mammals could change sex, but now you've added "Get over it", you've convinced me.

Makes all the difference that

They are the only party left who know what a woman is....

@MiaMc

I’m surprised the conservatives have won. Not because I assumed it would go to Labour, but because there were 16 candidates! Will be interesting to see how much the vote was split. It might just be that they crept in because so many people voted for all the alternatives and it split the vote too much.

On this, I really don’t understand ex-labour voters switching to Tories. If you don’t think Labour has anything to vote for, surely you’d vote for a party like the greens or Lib Dem rather than jumping to the other end of the political spectrum. So I don’t think it’s Corbyn/Starmer/lack of policies - it’s more a conscious decision. Would love to understand how anyone can think the Tories are on their side or that they’re doing a good job after a decade of failed economic policies and covid catastrophe.

Labour found common ground between these groups under Blair. Granted it was pre-brexit.

A pointless comparison. It was a different world. In the 24 years that have passed since Blair was elected, the gap between those two groups has become wider and wider and wider.

Another thing.
This bloody Green Agenda of Boris and Carrie Antoinette. Will Labour please campaign to get it delayed.
We, as a family cannot afford an EV. We only can afford older cars, looking to change now. Family saloon for 4 adults, comfortable on long journeys, say KIA, Ford not fussed, £15/16,000. There are good choices. but what happens after that?
Climate Change is important but what are the choices if no Petrol cars?

In the 24 years that have passed since Blair was elected, the gap between those two groups has become wider and wider and wider.

It doesn’t matter. Labour needs to find common ground or fade into oblivion. Looking at what Blair did is as good a starting point as any.

I am also the product of a 1960s grammar, and the vast majority of pupils were from working class or lower middle class families, because that was the nature of the local population. The borough didn't have a 'posh end'.

Well, mine was a working class town. You talk about lower middle class and there were plenty of those at school, but very very few children of factory workers. There was no such thing as a technical school either. But this isn't the place for that debate.

Labour needs to find common ground or fade into oblivion

It doesn't matter. The gap between a brexiter and a remainer is too large. IMO the party will split.

@InterstellarOverdrive

Holy shit... Women are voting tory because of trans rights??? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

Fundamentally Labour are completely out of touch with what labour supporters want. I know lifelong labour supporters who genuinely don’t know who to vote for as they don’t believe in the current labour leaders (they also didn’t vote labour when Corbyn was in charge). I personally think it all went wrong for labour with Brexit, the majority of their supporters wanted Brexit to happen and the labour leaders couldn’t see this.

One thing about Blair was that he maintained tight discipline - they intended to get elected and appeared to make sure that all the Parliamentary party knew that.

[quote Unsure33]@dadshere

Perhaps you would like to explain to the people of Hartlepool why they are stupid and selfish ? I am sure they would love to reply to you ?

Perhaps it might be more stupid for a party just because “ you always have”[/quote]
Stupid to vote for the tories who consistently have shown that they are the party of low taxes for the wealthy, underfunded public services and constant sleaze. Unless of course they are very wealthy, in which case they are just selfish.