Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

People may vote for someone they dislike but they will never vote for someone that they believe dislikes them
Pretty much sums it up.

@TheKeatingFive

Trans women are women, trans men are men. Get over it.

It really is this kind of careful listening, empathy and nuanced debate that will bring people round to your cause.

I was paraphrasing the catchphrase of choice used by many, many LGBQ people in the 90s and 00's. Perhaps when we, as a society, have acceptance of everyone's personal sexual and gender preferences (apart from obvious illegal things) we can move forward from this ridiculousness. I'm not saying it's straightforward but it is, ultimately, necessary to accept people for who they are. As long as they do not harm others - and any person who intends to harm would do whether trans or not - it really is none of anyone's business.

Said it before, but it is worth repeating. You can have nice Tories. You can have intelligent Tories. You can't have nice, intelligent Tories.

Labour doesn't really stand for anything anymore, at least Corbyn and I don't like him did.

Of course I don't trust starmer after his tenure at CPS he failed Rotherham in the CSE.

For example, in 2019 Boris said that he planned to 'cement the UK as a science superpower'. You can't deny that his government hasn't made leaps and bounds in science during this pandemic.

Because of the efforts of individual staff working in the labs. Many of whom came from overseas. I would be inclined to say that they have made progress in spite of the Government and not because of it. How much science does the average PPE or Classics graduate know? Of Johnson's generation I suspect not a great lot.

Personally and I know I will get jumped on for this but I think it's absurd to vote tory because you don't like labour's position on trans rights, and I say that as a GC feminist.

@6Helen7

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more. My grandfather would be turning in his grave.

And they think that Boris Johnson represents them?! He hasn't a clue. His entire life has been one of huge privilege and the only thing that exercises his rather small mind is how to feather his own nest and the nests of his equally over-privileged cronies. There's plenty of evidence for that.

In addition to my earlier comments, I just saw that that the Labour candidate was brexit sabotaging former MP Paul Williams. How insulting to the people of Hartlepool to put him forward and expect to win.

@dadshere the ones you say are stupid are likely the ones who believe the constant lies from the press. They're told what to believe and they can't see past what the papers tell them. It's a really sad state of affairs. Even the BBC is a tory mouthpiece now. If we ever want to see real progressive change here then it is the tory-biased media monopoly that needs to be destroyed.

What a ridiculous statement @dadshere

There's no point trying to have a debate on this issue. It just goes the same way as all the Brexit threads - many intelligent suggestions from people on both sides of the divide, overridden by people who obviously know it all going "they're all thick racist bigots who are being lied too but are too thick to realise it". Find a pro-remain statement on a Brexit thread and replace "leave voter" with "Tory voter".

@Tagaagajavdv

I briefly moved back from Scotland to the north, I lasted less than 7 months.

I’d say the part of Yorkshire where I’m from, and the part I briefly moved to are culturally right wing. Divide and rule, lots of benefit claimant bashing, a long with deep set xenophobia, anti traveller sentiment, homophobia. A lot of glorification of Churchill, the military and flags. This sentiment even snuck into hospital staff rooms. I got out and back to Scotland (which although not perfect is in my experience much better)

5:17 Tagaagajavdv

I think Hartlepool and the NE are similar ^

15:21randomer

@Tagaagajavdv,sounds hideous.I sometimes go for a holiday and have detected a small minded,xenophobic attitude.

Xenophobia is bad, but generalising and sluring entire regions of a country is fine. Gotcha.

@dadshere

Said it before, but it is worth repeating. You can have nice Tories. You can have intelligent Tories. You can't have nice, intelligent Tories.

There are loads of nice intelligent Tories. Johnny Mercer is lovely. I also think Graham Brady is a very nice man and very intelligent. There are others but those are two off the top of my head.

Conversely whenever I think of the Labour politicians I know of they are almost all, without exception, nasty, bitter and arrogant. Many of them are completely thick too.

Do Labour actually want to win?? It doesn't seem like it.
Paul Williams their candidate lost his "Redwall" Stockton seat in the last election to the Tories. He is the archest of arch remainers(broke the Labour whip 6 times in voting for a second referendum) standing in an area where 70% voted to Leave. An "I know better" than my constituents attitude. People feel that Labour "haven't listened" to them or learnt lessons as an array of MP's said they would in the aftermath of the GE. Choosing Williams as the candidate just reinforces that.
Williams also took a £8k Saudi funded "hospitality" visit a few years back and then sang praises about Saudi Arabia being "progressive and modern" (tell that to women who have dubbed it "the world's biggest open prison"). The 2011 tweet about a Tory MILF also came back to haunt him.
I think maybe Labour thought he would go down well as a local-ish GP? He doesn't seem to be a canny choice. A friend said that it felt like an insult to have him be the candidate chosen by Labour to stand. Labour have had Hartlepool for 47 years and how did they treat their voters? perhaps a Tory will be able to rustle up some government funding.

Angela Rayner then didn't help things when she accused the Tory candidate of having links to tax havens in the Cayman Islands (when the candidate had lived there whilst her husband was working as a banking regulator chasing up dodgy tax dealings, not engaging in them). FGS could Angela not have got a minion to fact check this before casting aspirations (which then resulted in Angela Ryaner being outed for using tax payer funded expenses to buy an array of premium apple tech products, including special monogrammed ear buds in order to work from home, all permissable but it looked like she had "her nose in the trough")

Labour have really cocked it up. They aren't listening and ex labour voters will continue to hammer them at the ballot box until they do. I think a lot of the votes aren't pro Tory votes they are anti Labour votes.

All these people talking as if Hartlepool represents everywhere in the country. It doesn't. They voted Brexit but many cities didn't and will support labour. The London mayoral election will be a different story.

I don't get this affiliation and loyalty to one party. It is not a religion or a football team

Many of us feel the same, APInchOfLOL, but there's a mindset which would vote for a turd if it had the right rosette on it - or even someone who's inconveniently dead (though I'm still hoping that was irony)

There's a weird sort of tribalism about it - a bit like the football you mentioned - complete with chants, attacks on the opposition's supporters and all the rest

Odd, really ...

[quote InterstellarOverdrive]@dadshere the ones you say are stupid are likely the ones who believe the constant lies from the press. They're told what to believe and they can't see past what the papers tell them. It's a really sad state of affairs. Even the BBC is a tory mouthpiece now. If we ever want to see real progressive change here then it is the tory-biased media monopoly that needs to be destroyed.[/quote]
Again blaming the loss on the media won't get you anywhere. It continues the myth that the Northern working class are stupid and believe everything they read int he papers. It was the same mistake over Brexit. People aren't stupid and 'conservative media' is not to blame for Labour's demise.

@Purplecatshopaholic

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

Seriously? Have you been wearing blinkers and ear defenders? Boris has done an amazing job during the pandemic, and most people are heartily sick of the ‘woke’ brigade, and their dismissal of women.

@Congressdingo

People may vote for someone they dislike but they will never vote for someone that they believe dislikes them Pretty much sums it up.

Agree with this.

Labour primarily directs itself towards its new wave of voters now, they surely must see that those voters - the young, woke, liberal crowd - are the polar opposite of the people who used to make up most of their supporters - the working class?

I don't think Johnson could be said to have done well during the pandemic for the whole of last year. He got lucky with the vaccines, but that's as much to do with him not putting the vaccination roll out in the hands of his chums or SERCO and the like.

@Bibidy

Eaxctly! And those woke voters have their pick of parties - Lib Dems, Greens and Labour.

Anyone with a conservative, pro-capitalist, pro-working/business mentality only really have one party to vote for (as rubbish as they are, they are the only centre/right party)

As long as they do not harm others - and any person who intends to harm would do whether trans or not - it really is none of anyone's business.

The issue is that changes in law to protect trans rights, well intentioned as they may be, have the potential to put women at risk.

You’d know this if you actually listened to people’s concerns.

It’s not remotely like support of gay rights and telling people to ‘get over it’ is exactly the kind of tone-deaf twattery that is turning people away from the party.

Consider yourself part of the problem.

It's not being reported on the BBC but the Greens seem to be doing quite well. Now to me they always seem a bit too flaky, but maybe they have caught the zeitgeist of younger people, for whom issues like climate change matter.

Boris has done an amazing job during the pandemic

I assume either this is irony or you have lived in a sealed box for the last 18 months.

The answer is simple. Corbyn and momentum did so so much damage to Labour that it’s a long way back and due to brexit, which went relatively smoothly to be fair, we weren’t all starving in the streets as predicted , generous furlough, thr vaccine program etc, thr tories got the job done and gave Labour little to complain about. And no one is interested in other polices right now, because it’s been all brexit and then about Covid

The fact we are globally a leader in the vaccine program is probably going to be a winner for a very long time.