Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@Bluntness100

The answer is simple. Corbyn and momentum did so so much damage to Labour that it’s a long way back and due to brexit, which went relatively smoothly to be fair, we weren’t all starving in the streets as predicted , generous furlough, thr vaccine program etc, thr tories got the job done and gave Labour little to complain about. And no one is interested in other polices right now, because it’s been all brexit and then about Covid

The fact we are globally a leader in the vaccine program is probably going to be a winner for a very long time.

What about the 150,000 dead people? Will that be a winner too?

@TheKeatingFive

As long as they do not harm others - and any person who intends to harm would do whether trans or not - it really is none of anyone's business.

The issue is that changes in law to protect trans rights, well intentioned as they may be, have the potential to put women at risk.

You’d know this if you actually listened to people’s concerns.

It’s not remotely like support of gay rights and telling people to ‘get over it’ is exactly the kind of tone-deaf twattery that is turning people away from the party.

Consider yourself part of the problem.

Exactly. No issue here with anyone being trans, but when you start trying to change language around women (menstruaters, birthing parent etc) that does have the potential to harm others.

My ideal political party would be one left of centre which protects women's sex based rights unapologetically, has a strong commitment to the environment, has a strong commitment to the importance of the early years and supporting parents, has a strong commitment to reforming the education system and which removes the charitable status of private schools (among other things).

That party doesn't exist, so I vote for one that aligns the most with my views.

[quote PronounssheRa]Khalid Mahmood has resigned from the Labour front bench saying that 'A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party'

twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1390711677457403910[/quote]
Should we expect the usual response that this is simply the cover narrative to hide his thick, northern, xenophobic inclinations?

Well said, Khalid

Khalids full statement, I don't think there is a single word I disagree with.

twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1390717476602798084

@btwwhichonespink

And using words like 'gammon' for anyone voting for Conservatives really grinds my gears. People voting do so for their local area and who will do the better job. Flinging insults like 'gammon' at them will keep Labour out of power forever.

Yep. Insulting people won't help to change their minds. It comes across very strongly as if Labour and many of its voters despise people who vote differently and rather than engaging and trying to win people over, they just dismiss them as thick or 'gammon'. Why would these people vote for Labour after that?

This is good from Anna Soubry.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-hartlepool-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-b1843980.html?amp=&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday

[quote InterstellarOverdrive]@MangosteenSoda the people that constantly complain about Corbyn, as if he is responsible for all wrong things, do that because it's the papers talking. It's all the lies they've been fed. I have never in my life witnessed a smear campaign so constant, so vicious. It was truly appalling what they did to Corbyn. I'm not saying he's perfect, he definitely isn't, but he was our best hope for a progressive society and to move away from oil dominated capitalism. The tories knew that he had real potential. He resonated with young people like no other politician has done, possibly ever. They had to destroy him in order to remain in power. And they were successful in doing so because they have control of the media. It sickens me that we are living in such an Orwellian state.[/quote]
I think you need to read their policies just before the last election. Corbyn and McDonald were clearly on the path to bring the country down economically, the policies were the stuff of fantasy with a magic pot of money.

I can see you are new on here and these are your first posts. I'm sure reading that there are voices that don't agree with you is very difficult

@Bibidy what language are they proposing being changed? I'm not aware of any language changes in labour policy. Not saying they aren't there, just that I haven't seen them.

Khalid Mahmood has absolutely nailed it. Hopefully more like him will follow...

[quote InterstellarOverdrive]@Bibidy what language are they proposing being changed? I'm not aware of any language changes in labour policy. Not saying they aren't there, just that I haven't seen them.[/quote]
Ah sorry, not specifically talking about Labour there, just the general trend emerging at the moment towards using different language to refer to biologically female bodily functions.

@Bluntness100

The answer is simple. Corbyn and momentum did so so much damage to Labour that it’s a long way back and due to brexit, which went relatively smoothly to be fair, we weren’t all starving in the streets as predicted , generous furlough, thr vaccine program etc, thr tories got the job done and gave Labour little to complain about. And no one is interested in other polices right now, because it’s been all brexit and then about Covid

The fact we are globally a leader in the vaccine program is probably going to be a winner for a very long time.

How can you say that Brexit "went relatively smoothly"? Its effects are only just beginning to be felt.

Lots of businesses are losing out because there is no longer a solid trade deal with the EU, and many will continue to lose out. The peace process in Northern Ireland is under threat, the Irish PM has said there need to be very serious talks about that at the highest level and Boris Johnson has refused.

It's very early days and the media, focussed on Covid as it is, has not paid the attention to the Brexit fallout that it should have done.

@Flemingshat

Are you probably comfortable that women will have less rights going forward if Labour were in power. You only have to look at their policy for Women's officers policy - it's very poor.

No, but I don't have any confidence in the ability of the tories to protect women either. So I vote for the party which has other policies that I do agree with.

If Labour could clearly acknowledge the Oxford English Dictionary definition of women, it would be a start.

No, the point is to pass policies you think will improve the lives of people - or have I missed something? Career politicians believe getting elected is all that counts and that's the problem. All Blair did was destroy faith in the Labour Party and continue Thatcherite policies - what's the point of that?

You can have the best policies in the world and they’re pointless unless you’re elected. You must have slept through the Blair era - you obviously missed record investment in the NHS, Surestart, a huge reduction in child poverty ...

My grandparents will be turning in their grave. The end of the mines under Maggie was tortuous locally.

I can't even begin to imagine what the people of Hartlepool think that the Tories will actually do for them. When I ask I get back 'our labour council wastes money and services suffer'. Absolutely no idea that we are losing our public services because of central government Tory cuts to the council.
It won't last. Boris has to make happen all that he promises for the people of Hartlepool.

@dadshere

Said it before, but it is worth repeating. You can have nice Tories. You can have intelligent Tories. You can't have nice, intelligent Tories.

It really isn't worth repeating. Not even worth saying once. It is yet another example of tone death sneering on here.

@Alsohuman

No, the point is to pass policies you think will improve the lives of people - or have I missed something? Career politicians believe getting elected is all that counts and that's the problem. All Blair did was destroy faith in the Labour Party and continue Thatcherite policies - what's the point of that?

You can have the best policies in the world and they’re pointless unless you’re elected. You must have slept through the Blair era - you obviously missed record investment in the NHS, Surestart, a huge reduction in child poverty ...

I wouldn't call PFI 'record investment'. More like an eternal ball and chain that is taking much needed cash from the NHS budget forevermore.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit Yep, I should have just said different to Hartlepool. Good call out.

Paul Williams their candidate lost his "Redwall" Stockton seat in the last election to the Tories. He is the archest of arch remainers(broke the Labour whip 6 times in voting for a second referendum) standing in an area where 70% voted to Leave. An "I know better" than my constituents attitude. People feel that Labour "haven't listened" to them or learnt lessons as an array of MP's said they would in the aftermath of the GE. Choosing Williams as the candidate just reinforces that.

It was a cynical move from Labour putting him up as the candidate it was quite simply - he's one of those pandemic NHS heroes, that'll mop up the vote.

@Flemingshat
a strong commitment to reforming the education system
What reforms would you like to see? Just curious.

@littlebillie um, no. Not new at all. Don't know where you got that from.

The tories seem to have said 'magic pot of money' when it's for things like trident, arms, Brexit or giving to any of their mates for dodgy contracts. But apparently there's no money when it would actually benefit ordinary people. Austerity for us.

@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

Most English newspapers, The Sun, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, Express, Times, lean right and will always give the Labour leader a harder time than the Tory. But Labour leaders surely know this and need to find a strategy to cut through it. I think Corbyn had some great ideas but as a personality he failed to engage with people outside his core supporters.

The Left have the BBC etc behind them.

@6Helen7

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more. My grandfather would be turning in his grave.

Agree.

Labour has gone woke. I won't vote for a woke party. Ever.

I know people from Hartlepool. It was long before Corbyn that Labour messed up there (although they don't like him). It's Blair wot did it. (Whatever Mandelson likes to claim).

@bellaisle
I can't even begin to imagine what the people of Hartlepool think that the Tories will actually do for them.

I think the long and the short of it is that they have no trust in any party to make their town/life better, so they might as well vote for the one that tells them nice bedtime stories about Empire/Patriotism/an end to Eastern European plumbers. The irony is that I believe Corbyn and before him Ed Miliband were politician who, for all their faults and relative privilege, DID care about less well off people in Britain, and people in the poorer/run down parts of the country. But in both cases, they were both successfully smeared by the right wing press and a compliant BBC for not being "British" enough - Ed Miliband in a particularly nasty way. Anyway, the public gets what the public wants.