why do you think your single friends are single?

[forkjuggler]

I'm the single friend here. All my friends married or in long term relationships. By contrast, I'm divorced and have always been the one in 1-3 year relationships while they've all been coupled up. We were chatting about my terrible luck with men and I get all the usual platitudes from them about there being someone out there for me.

However, I can't help thinking they'll all have views about why I'm in my 40's and still without a decent relationship. Can it really be bad luck???

I'm interested in views from you lot on why you think some people struggle to meet anyone decent, while others pair up with ease?

On the subject of needs.

A lot of what the regularly coupled up posters say about their single friends being too needy sounds reasonable in theory....... but may well be back to front.

I always worked very hard at hiding my needs. Denying I had any. I seemed like an assertive confident woman until they got in to a relationship with me and then because i equated being good with having no needs i just withered from a woman with a strong mind to a scared child before their eyes and they quickly dumped me. I think for me, having no needs and mistaking compliance for compatibility is what bored/scared off decent men.

As I got older and realised, well doh, of course i have needs and if im meeting some of yours im going to expect you to want to try to meet some of mine!!

I only really got that in my last relationship though.That worked much better and lasted longer than any other relationship ive ever tried to have.

Mommyshark.

"Should say that both these women planned to settle down and have families, despite having full lives otherwise. So not strictly a choice, although the one in her forties might now choose not to have another relationship."

I do think there is some truth in the theories that

• women are often duped in their younger years as to how important and/or easy it is to have children in a myriad of ways from the fairystories of "happy ever after" children are indoctrinated with to the over sexualisation of teenagers/twenties to the "yummy mummy" "MILF" media image, to a whole range of aspirational marketing in society. it is enough to fan the flames of any woman anywhere who thinks the clock is ticking and that the clock is an important thing; and

• the sad but I think REAL truth is that as men get older the dating game often gets easier for them. Yes nice men exist. But for a man in his 40s who has any reasonably attractive qualities and finds himself single for whatever reason, the pool of women open to him is STILL much wider than a single women in her 40s (whether he has children from a previous relationship or not). In other words he can get together with a woman who is also in her 40s. Or (more likely, or he will at least be keeping his eye out) he can try to attract a younger woman who does not (yet, or indeed will ever) have the money to have the children she so desperately craves in the manner to which she would like to have those children..................

sad but I think still true.

I’ve got a friend who is the classic ‘one before The One’

Poor thing has had about 4 LTRs where the guy has been on the fence about committing, they break up and then within a year, he has met his future wife, moved in together etc

In all honesty, I can see exactly why. She is too intense, too needy and too exacting with them while not living up to those standards for herself.

She is also very good company, pretty, funny so that’s why they get together with her in the first place but I wouldn’t want to be in a cohabitation relationship with her either.

My best mate’s sister was the classic picky, high standards type who would dump after a date if they did the slightest thing wrong - she always says she can feel her fanny clamp shut and the attraction drain out of her like a plug being pulled out of a bath when they make an unfunny joke/pick their teeth/burp/wear shit shoes

But she is now 42 and trying (and failing) to get pregnant with donor sperm, while going on dates with divorcees laden with baggage

The couples she admires and says she is envious of are women with men she wouldn’t have gone anywhere near 10 years ago, but now sees that a bit of compromise on looks or job title or hairline probably would have made her happier in the long run than ruling everyone out on tiny things

I'm younger so may be a bit different but a lot of the single people I know are so because they want someone with zero flaws. Like as soon as someone does something they see as "wrong" (I'm not talking cheating, I'm talking didn't share one of the same hobbies) that was that. Then I guess time flows and as soon as they are 35+ it's so much harder to meet someone who isn't divorced/has kids from a previous relationship which is something they don't want

Perhaps the drive and need isn't there?

Doesn't want kids, doesn't need a relationship for financial reasons

I mean, it's cheaper to have a partner to share the mortgage and bills isn't it

Plus if you want to have a family, it's easier to have somebody to partner up with

Thats a really interesting comment that you (Insert1x20p) find your single friends to be happier than the couples. I used to feel embarassed about always being the single one when out with friends but it really bothers me a lot less nowadays. There are couples that really just included me and i got on equally well with both the couple. But then there were others that did make me feel like the gooseberry. It helped a lot to have my DS as we had the kids in common. I also found myself to be a fair bit younger than most of the married couples so other than the kids we didn't have much in common. I think it's all about how you manage your own feelings and if a situation makes you feel uncomfortable you can decide to go or not. What i do find interesting is it was always cheaper for me to do things with two children so taking my son and a friend to places cost me less than if i would go just the two of us. 'Family tickets' were mainly minimum 3 people... we aren't in the UK so perhaps its different here.

Yes, I remember hearing a man say that women he previously wouldn't have stood a chance with are now all desperate to be with him and he thought this was his just desserts . He never settled with any of them either, just enjoyed himself at their expense really.

I get settling for something less than perfect in the looks, hairline, background, job title stakes, but I've seen this one friend suddenly accepting a man with a nasty past with women. I haven't seen him, so now I'm thinking he must pass her looks etc test. He has the job title.

I'm the perpetually single one and the very honest answer is this:

I look around at friends and family who are married and the cost of marriage/partnership seems far to high compared to the reward. I can only really think of one couple who both seem to have benefitted by their partnership. All the others are just not relationships I would want to be in - one or both of them appears to me to have been made LESS happy by the marriage compared to how I imagine they might feel being single.

I look at my own life and there isn't anything missing. I am happy. If it ain't broke...

We only currently have male single friends so it might be a bit different but to be honest I can see why they're single. Generally they're fun to be friends with but all have some personality trait which would make me right off dating them. So one is very charismatic but quite self centred and naive so has very high expectations of a girlfriend changing her life completely to fit in with his while he won't change anything, he tends to have an endless series of shortish (2 year) drama filled relationships, always declaring the new one to be the love his life. He's currently dating a woman in the US who he's never met and planning to bring her over and get married asap! We don't think it's likely we'll ever even meet her once the novelty wears off. Then others are hopelessly shy so never approach anyone, or give off a sexless vibe and have no idea about flirting so just form these "friendships" with girls while secretly pining. We have one friend who's very interesting to talk to but can be intense and turns everything into a serious debate which is off-putting for people you don't know. I think in most cases friends can see why someone is single yes but obviously you can't tell them! My last single female friend was really easily hurt and taken advantage of and had imho a too sexy dating profile which attracted the wrong type of man for what she was looking for (settling down). She's now engaged to someone who messed her around for years, confessing to never really loving her and still being in love with his ex so I'm not too hopeful for that one to be honest. For some it's bad luck yes and it definitely gets harder as you get older as stocks of single people are depleted naturally and the most attractive/easiest to get along with go first. The best advice is still never to settle OP, it breeds resentment and never ends well for either party, we've seen so many relationships break up after years and kids with so much stress and hatred and all seemed bad from the beginning. You should both feel really lucky to have found the other, anything less will only make you miserable in the long run.

I feel uncomfortable at the idea of "settling" to be honest. I wouldn't be happy at the thought of being with a man who didnt find me that attractive but had realised I was the "best" he could get so had decided to "settle". Likewise, I wouldnt want to do that to someone else. They dont have to be voted most attractive man of the year but I have to find them super attractive, even if no-one else does. Incidentally, in my own opinion, I think men are more likely to "settle" short term - so in the case a previous poster described where her friend was constantly being the one before the one. They presumably knew quite early on that she wasnt "the one" but were happy to bumble on in the short term. Women I think are more likely to wind up "settling" in longer term relationships - e.g. marrying Mr "right now" not "Mr right". I guess because there is so much pressure still on women to get married/have kids etc. It isnt good in my opinion.

And because I dont want to be someone that someone else settles for I dont think it hurts to be a little high-maintenance - not to be super clingy but to expect some effort from men. Because to be honest if they are really into you they will make more effort. If they arent, they wont. And I would rather be single for ever than be someone elses compromise with the world

Bubblebu I couldn't agree more.

Honest answer, my one single friend considers anything less that a millionaire, part time male model, part time nuclear physicist beneath her. She’s dumped so many lovely men declaring them “paupers” “ugly” or “thick” when they are none of those things, that’s it’s embarrassing. I’m all for having high standards but she s ridiculous.

l ook around at friends and family who are married and the cost of marriage/partnership seems far to high compared to the reward.

I feel very similar. Some of my married seem very unhappy but has one to help pay the bills. It doesn't seem worth it.

I wonder whether men who read this thread might often have a cynical reaction - namely when women are in their late teens / 20s / 30s they are so arrogant because they assume the men are DESPERATE for sex with them.... and they can sense the judgements (this man has a crap job/is not good looking enough/is a [horror] divorcee/ would not go bungee jumping with me, etc etc)

So you get the experience of "Karma" with older men who then play the field with the whole range of older women and at the same time younger women who they decide are desperate for a baby.

I guess it is just a case of being perceptive enough at the right time of your life to identify genuine people who have integrity and want the same thing as you do..........

Yes, I can see that Bubble. It is, as a pp says, a huge gamble, deciding to be in a relationship. There are some utter shits out there, among both sexes / all genders.

Selkiefly

" I am not going to jeopardise my contentment and my equilibrium by looking for love at 50! But if it came to me, I'm not resistant to it. I don't think. But either way, I'm happy and free "

Agreed

But do not under estimate the fact that there is risk involved in starting a new relationship as an older woman.

If your perfect match came along i would be happy for you.
But as it is totally socially acceptable for men (in a way it definitely is not for women) to "cast the net wide" in terms of age range of women (anything up to 30 year range from their age) even if you meet someone your age who appears compatible, the chances he will not be surveying the horizen whilst in a relationship with you has to be born in mind.

What a risk to take, especially if you are actually already quite content on your own.

Mommy, agreed.

I do agree that cynical people without a moral code exist in both genders.

@Bubblebu

I wonder whether men who read this thread might often have a cynical reaction - namely when women are in their late teens / 20s / 30s they are so arrogant because they assume the men are DESPERATE for sex with them.... and they can sense the judgements (this man has a crap job/is not good looking enough/is a [horror] divorcee/ would not go bungee jumping with me, etc etc)

So you get the experience of "Karma" with older men who then play the field with the whole range of older women and at the same time younger women who they decide are desperate for a baby.

I guess it is just a case of being perceptive enough at the right time of your life to identify genuine people who have integrity and want the same thing as you do..........

I think feeling a bit chuffed that you are more attractive than you were is one thing. (As someone who was an awkward teenager and really came into their own in their 20s I can understand). But the kinds of men who go "Hah Karma!!!" probably arent very nice anyway. (Let alone the sub-set who consider playing the field as some sort of "revenge")

@bubblebu i know what you mean. And even in my forties, i met men online and i thought it was working well, but they were killing time til they met a younger version of me. This played out a few times. It was sometimes acknowledged and sometimes not. Im not in touch with any of them now but i wouldnt be surprised if they all managed to find a woman ten years younger.

In my experience it's not so much about high standards as having any standards at all. Of course you expect to compromise but the pool of attractive, available men for women in their 40s is ridiculously small.

And when I say attractive I don't mean movie star good looking, drives a Ferrari and earns 6 figures, I mean really basic eg takes care of himself and can hold a conversation - it really shouldn't be too much to ask. I cringe when I read some of these guys saying how they're not interested in ONS or hookups, the arrogance of them assuming any woman would want that with them when they cant even make the effort to look presentable or write an interesting profile.

Of course there's the odd 'catch' but you can guarantee they'll be a complete arsehole who blocks you mid conversation, turns every chat to sex and if you get as far as a date or even a relationship, has so much baggage it's just not worth it.

I'm far from perfect but I make the best of myself and think I have a lot to offer, sadly most of the men who seem interested just make my heart sink. I've got the rest of my life pretty sorted - good job, mates, family, home etc but I'm lonely and the hurt from continually getting your hopes up over some loser online just wears you down after a while.

I'm trying very hard to get to a stage where I don't want a man anymore, I just think life will be easier. I've seen friends settling for men who don't treat them as they deserve to be treated and that's not going to be me but the alternative or being alone for the rest of my life doesn't fit me with joy either.

I've been single last 6 years . I don't know what other people think. I have some friends who are always asking me when I'm going to find someone etc. To be honest though I'm concentrating on my two children (one who is only 5) and working 4 full days a week as well as starting to get a social life again after lockdown. I haven't got the headspace to be thinking about relationships on top of that. I feel it will be different when my children are older.

@hilariousnamehere

Single by choice but after two decent relationships - it's not them, it really is me

I just prefer being on my own, I have a happier and more fulfilled life by myself than in a relationship and I have no intention of ever being coupled up again.

It can be a choice not a default/in between state.

Yes, this is me. I spent most of my 20's in bad relationships, changing myself to what I thought they wanted me to be. Took a few years to realise I'm more content by myself, and am less willing to compromise and be anyone's surrogate mother.

It helps that I have a few great friendships, and even though they are all in LTR, they don't spend all their time in a couple. Honestly, I look at my friends relationships (and listen to their woes), and there is very little that I envy.

If someone amazing came along, great. If not, great. I'm not really looking anyway. I also don't want children, so that helps, as I don't have a ticking clock to worry about.

appalled

"probably arent very nice anyway"

yes but as identified by multiple previous posters, a lot of women in their late teens/20s/30s (especially those considered in a cliched way "hot") deliberately and purposefully go for "bad boys" because it turns them on. And resist men who are "probably very nice anyway".............

hence such messages get out to the male of the species and - all of its own making.

"I think feeling a bit chuffed that you are more attractive than you were is one thing"

and the fact that (admit there is some generalisation here but still true) for men, becoming "more attractive than you were" is about earning more money as they get older (and invariably more money than women of equivalent age) rather than aesthetics / beauty.

being cynical myself - "Looks fade. Money talks"