why do you think your single friends are single?

[forkjuggler]

I'm the single friend here. All my friends married or in long term relationships. By contrast, I'm divorced and have always been the one in 1-3 year relationships while they've all been coupled up. We were chatting about my terrible luck with men and I get all the usual platitudes from them about there being someone out there for me.

However, I can't help thinking they'll all have views about why I'm in my 40's and still without a decent relationship. Can it really be bad luck???

I'm interested in views from you lot on why you think some people struggle to meet anyone decent, while others pair up with ease?

@Bubblebu "Not saying therefore do not do it. Just saying popular culture encourages women (and men) to ignore what a relationship might actually cost before they enter into it."
I agree with this. But I would add popular culture also judges those women who do ignore those costs and wind up paying a high price extremely harshly after the fact.

I have 3 single friends in their late 30's. Two have been single for 10 years. I've never heard that they've been on a date/ had ons in that 10 years. The other will use OLD and actively wants a partner. From my observations all 3 lack confidence around men. When we're out as a group men will approach us and it's usually myself and another married friend who will chat to them and make conversation. My 3 friends will largely ignore them- whether that's lack of confidence or indifference I don't know. All 3 are professional, funny, kind and attractive women. 2 have talked about wanting kids but time is running out really. I think it must be hard to meet partners these days unless you do use OLD.

I’d think lucky them! Unless they’re unhappy of course. The friends I have are mostly (I think) happily single.
I have one friend who is unhappy, but she has very limited interests, won’t compromise at all on anything and I mean anything. If you were to go out for a drink she wants to choose where and will tell you what to drink pretty much! Even her friendship group has dwindled as a result.
I do agree the over 40 OLD thing must be very hard!

Jobs can also factor into it an old school friend of mine worked in child care She just didn't have opportunity's to meet men.
She would say she was happy being single
As she was concentrating on her career and when asked always same answer no one special in life.
It was only on a drunken night out she told us she was a virgin at 29.
No one has ever bought up the subject again so not sure if she is happy to be single or not.

In my opinion, a good proportion of women are single because they choose to be. They may well be jaded because of unfavourable experiences with men and dating. Society these days has a lot more single and solvent women who don’t “need” a relationship.

I think there is some truth to this.

Historically, there's been an acceptance that women do most of the 'wife work' in return for home security and children - with the husband providing the money to fund the house and kids.

Today, that deal no longer looks so fair.

Women have the opportunity to fund their own homes and children and are doing so, but (some) men haven't read the change and so are still leaving much of the home-based effort to their wives.

There are plenty of threads on mn where it is hard to imagine/understand what exactly the "DH" is contributing. For example, women expected to fund their own materity leave, do most the childcare, meet most the child-related costs, go back to work, all while the dearest husband spends £££ on himself.

The result? Marriage shortens women's lives but lengthens men's

A couple of my friends are single.

One will never 'settle' for settling down. Her life is (or at least was pre covid) exciting and full. She travelled all the time, lots of holidays, a very good job, own house, varied social circles, very interesting person all round.

The other settles for men that are not available emotionally. Her relationships don't work out.

DH was my first decent and only long term relationship. Previously in 'flings' I suppose. I really wanted to meet someone and have a family. I spent much longer periods of time with men that would never have 'settled' for me.

Its an unpopular opinion but like spending within our budgets, I think we are far more likely to be happy if we date within our 'limits' too.

I am finding this conversation very interesting. I'm in my 50s and long term single.
In my case I think a lot of it is because I've spent most of my spare energy as an adult dealing and working through issues from a traumatic childhood.
I would love to have had children but made a conscious decision years ago that as this wasn't going to happen I should just get on with loving other people's children ( mainly children and grandchildren of friends). I thouhht, well the best reason for wanting to have a child is because byou feel you have love and care to offer to one, so I should just get on with doing that in the best way I can.

Pressed post too soon
With regard to men, I would be open to a relationship with the right person. I would be looking for someone:
kind,
Emotionally literate ( having done a lot of therapy myself to I'd like them to have some insights into how and why they tick emotionally)
solvent
Intelligent and reasonably educated
shares my Christian faith ( though don't have to believe exactly the same things)
Am I being too fussy?
I think I've met two people in my life whom I would say I have really fallen for, one in my twenties who just didn't feel attraced to me in the same way and one when I was in my late 30s who was not available ( already married) so I didn't even start to go down that road.
I'm content to be single although sometimes feel a bit sidelined by a society that sees everyone as being in couples. I'd find it really hard to share space with someone I think after having lived alone for so many years.

I think there hasn't been enough mentioned on this thread about how men have changed in recent years due to widespread access to porn and incel type websites. I've been on a few dates with younger men and the reason I haven't seen them again is not due to being picky but rather due to them being abusive a-holes. Incel ideas sadly are widespread among men in their twenties in my experience. They were unable to have a normal conversation without reverting to 'negging' or other abusive techniques. That's before we even mention porn influenced expectations of degrading, violent sex. It's certainly put me off even trying.

I don't think it's every really one thing. A lot of people may have trust or commitment issues that they might not be fully aware of. Some people take a while to warm up to someone. Others just plain don't want to share their lives and like independence. And some it's just weird sliding doors issues - ie not being in the right place at the right time.

"I think it must be hard to meet partners these days unless you do use OLD."

going to show myself up here, and do not want to hijack the thread so a rhetorical question as much as anything (I will do research separately...)

what the heck is OLD??

what the heck is OLD??

I think it's on line dating

EducatingArti

I like your view of children.

I also think that society glamorises having children much in the same way it does getting married for a certain age bracket of women.
Take the enormous wedding industry and the "Yummymummy" industry - enormously lucrative.

Often the reality is very different......

ohhh!

I thought it was an online dating website which was actually called "OLD"

would have been suitable for me!!

I'm married now, but between serious relationships I was single for 2-3 years at a time and just not particularly interested in meeting anyone, so I normally assume that's the case for my single friends.

A couple of women do stand out as exceptions to the rule though - both of whom have been looking for relationships unsuccessfully. One seems to be very picky, out for the perfect man - I'm not saying she doesn't deserve perfection, just that you don't necessarily know what perfection looks like straight away and shouldn't just ditch someone because (for example) he reads the wrong newspaper. The other (a grown woman in her 30s) would always say she wanted a husband and kids, but would never talk to anyone she fancied. Hard to see how she expected this approach to work tbh.

The only women I know who are single seem to be so by choice - some want a partner but won't jump into a relationship without it being worthwhile, and others just can't be bothered with it all. Every single woman I know is interesting, attractive and intelligent. So I figure that they're making healthy choices! I'm not one of those who has been in a marriage / relationship forever either and some relationships have been a few years and some more like 6/7 years.

@Novelusername

For those people saying their standards are too high...well, that's just their standards. If I was told by a friend that I need to accept I'm only going to find dull men who I don't find physically attractive, I'd say fair enough and stay single, which it sounds like they are also doing. It all depends on your priorities. I've had a few long-term relationships, all terrible, and have done a lot of work on myself to figure out why since my last relationship ended. I think I'd like a relationship again, but only if it really enhanced my life and completely fitted in with my plans. The thought of the emotional and domestic labour so often involved in living with a man means I make no effort whatsoever to meet anyone. To be honest, relationships have left me feeling trapped. I think some people find their own company difficult, or they want children, so they're more willing to compromise in their relationships. Neither are the case for me, after my experience of bad relationships I feel I'm better off single than compromising.

Well, yes, but it's just logic. If you consistently can't find anyone who meets your standards then your standards are probably unrealistic for whatever reason.

That doesn't mean you should settle because there's nothing wrong with being single at all. More people should embrace being single than accept someone for the hell of it.

@hamsterchump

I think dating beyond your twenties must be very difficult and completely different to dating before that. Not only are you contending with a much reduced pool of potential partners but everyone is so much more likely to come with kids or vast expectations, or bad past experiences and biases and grievances they can't let go of or which have shaped them often not for the better. Also people judge eachother differently I think, based more on material/economic/career factors rather than attraction and compatibility which is a problem I think and leads people to pair off with someone they're not even sure they fancy but he seems really financially secure and keen for kids asap so.....................................

OH and I met when I was 18 and he was 22, it seemed simpler when all you had to worry about was whether they fancied you as much as you fancy them and if you get on well enough. Neither of us had anything to our name or a career or assets to protect etc so we had nothing to lose I suppose, I think it's easier to tell how you really feel about a person without a lot of the external pressure that can come from growing up. Also many long term single people seem to be used to doing exactly what they want when they want and controlling all their own money etc and while neither party should be a doormat, that attitude isn't exactly conducive to harmony in a relationship and I think they can find that a shock. It's easier when you've grown up with someone, sharing everything etc and it just seems normal.
So many women on here seem to get caught up in what sort of job a man they're dating has and I just can't imagine considering that really, especially not in any kind of comparable way as a factor to whether I fancy them or not. I think women in general underestimate how important fancying their partner is, I've seen girlfriends um and ah over continuing to date blokes they can't decide whether they fancy or not! I can't even imagine consider having sex with someone I didn't find attractive, bleurgh just why? I wonder if this contributes to the many dead bedrooms I read about on here. For the love of God at least go for someone you fancy, life's too short for anything less. If you fancy the pants off them, they fancy you just as much and you're pretty sure they're not a dick then I think that's the best foundation you can hope for for a new relationship.

I turn 30 later this year and I have to say I'm dreading it for the reasons mentioned!

I've recently bought my own home and have been single for just under 2 years. I'm in no rush to find someone as nice as it would be. I agree with a PP that there is a wealth of great women and not so great men overall.

Rae34 If you possibly can, prioritise meeting people in person in real life or if you must online date then try to meet asap and use it purely as an introduction thing, but in general I think it's not actually very helpful. I've seen so many friends go on endless online procured dates with no success. I think it kind of trains you out of trusting your instincts when it comes to who you're attracted to which is so damaging. People think photos are the be all and end all but I don't think they tell you much at all, some people are masters of photography and others are not. Plus in person you can see the whole person, their mannerisms, their voice, their smell (good or bad!), the way they treat others, etc. Attraction is more holistic than just what you can get from a photo. With online dating, everyone is easily ranked by how photogenic they are so everyone prioritises that when true attraction is more personal and elusive but vital in an enduring relationship. It's much harder to fake a persona in person and you should be able to tell whether you fancy them from the first date. If you don't (if you're not sure then you don't) it's a non starter.

User135644

"Well, yes, but it's just logic. If you consistently can't find anyone who meets your standards then your standards are probably unrealistic for whatever reason.

That doesn't mean you should settle because there's nothing wrong with being single at all."

This is wrong on so many levels.

Am I right to assume that you are in a relationship yourself?

@Bubblebu

I am single.

One day of reading mumsnet regularly tells me to be very very grateful for the fact that I am single.

HTH.

This is also very true! The flip side to the 'why is she single ?' is 'Why is she married?' I know quite a few people who would fall into that category, so perhaps that answers my question

I agree with pps who say that women don't 'need' marriage anymore and it's not such a great deal for women because of societal expectations.

I was in a terrible marriage and so I totally agree that I'm must happier being alone than in a rubbish relationship. Parenting is easier for me now that my ex-h actually has to parent! Generally, I'm happy with my life, and could carry on like this forever.

I also think there's a lot of truth in the recent research that found single, childless women are the happiest.

Its just a shame that there seems to be a limited supply of men who are good at relationships.

Lots of my married friends have lovely, devoted husbands, but the common denominator is that they all snapped them up young! I think I wasted too much time on the arrogant dickheads in my youth!

I’ve only one single friend who would love to be in a couple, but is so rigid about what he should be she’ll never find him. We went through a dodgy few months when I met DP as she kept critiquing him! ‘Oh I would never put up with that, football bores me’ or ‘I’d never allow those jeans over the threshold’. Luckily, I’m desperate so I apparently have no standards.....🤨

But yeah, I was the single friend for years, and somewhat narked that it seemed ok to discuss my status in a way I’d never do to them.....”why are you married, thrown away on Steve (sorry Steve, yes I’d love another glass)? You’re so funny and attractive I don’t know why you’re not single.”

''You're so funny and attractive, I don't know why you're not single!''

That's brilliant. Totally using that first opportunity I get.

I agree that things like clothes don't matter if you really click with somebody. That has only really happened to me once. That we clicked so completely that I realised it would have been utter madness to reject him for his clothes (not that bad, that was an example really) but he smoked which I wasn't keen on but ykwim.

Anyway we grew apart under covid and that's it for me now. Sack cloth!

I'm not defending this, but what men find attractive/unattractive is often very different from what women assume.

I often ask a male friend why a female friend is single, and they always think it's obvious: whereas to me, said female friend looks a real catch.