Billie Eilish in Vogue

[JoyOrbison]

Has anyone seen the interview and pics?

In contrast to Billie's usual look of large clothes, avoiding a look of what is traditionally /media hyped as femine (tight or revealing clothes, lots of make up etc) Billie is pictured in retro underwear, blonde hair, flawless make up and says it makes her feel more like a woman.

Ffs, like our dcs needed another stereotypical woman posing in underwear... She cut such an unique no nonsense look and has been a breath of fresh air especially to. Girls t
And now there is this.

Change your style etc yes, but to basically mimic something that is such an age old entrenched style when it goes against what you previously stood for and what your fans looked up to. You for? It just seems such a shame for all. Those younger fans that saw her as saying it's okay to be different... Now it seems its not.

The underwear she’s wearing is bloody awful. Apparently she has a new lease of life being blonde. Okaaayyyyy

@16purplecolour16

Put this discussion in the context of 20 women stating they had been exploited by a powerful media executive aka Noel Clarke.

Why not put it in the context of Billie's own abuse and how that might have influenced her style/clothing choices?

Since the thread is actually about her.

She can do what she wants. She doesn't owe your kids anything.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose and @Roboticcarrot

It seems to me there are two positions being discussed, both of which need to be put into a context. To censor BI’s right to dress and present herself as she wants denies women’s right to ownership of her body and its functions, ie, right to on demand abortion, right to say no at any point of sexual experience. The second position that BI’s visual statement makes is a woman aiming to sustain a career in an industry that is rife with exploitation and where women have exercised their right to ‘work’ their body but after the event they felt exploited, ie, Weinstein and Clarke.

Some posters are posing the position is the exposure of body necessary to sustain a commercial artistic career. If this is the case then why is the most powerful woman in the western world not compelled to use her body to achieve the same aim. I understand that Madonna has achieved a sustained commercial career by the use of similar costume and body exposure, as has Tracy Emin.

However, BI has stated an emotional vulnerability and it right to question this activity of exposure as a form of ‘duty of care’ by us the consumers. Otherwise we are enabling the exploitation of young women navigating a path fraught with risk and compromise; that even the Spice Girls report once their careers have matured.

This wasn't really a surprise if you look at the lyrics of her pasts songs. Eg. Bad Guy - a sexy song about an empowered young girl who 'might seduce your dad', with lyrics about a 'bloody nose' and 'bruises on both my knees for you'....

I think the whole 'I'm an empowered woman who doesn't have to pander to male desire to be successful' thing was probably an illusion all along. The 'baggy clothes, don't care' look was for the first album and I guess the execs are worried that people might get bored of that.

This will just keep happening over and over again.

If Britney Spears had been coming onto the scene now, people would be fawning over how 'empowering' it is for her that she gets to be so sexual in her performances and that her videos and the way she dresses are such a 'celebration of female sexuality' blah blah blah.

Not caught up. Read this.

'Suddenly you're a hypocrite if you want to show your skin, and you're easy and you're a slut and you're a whore. If I am, then I'm proud. Me and all the girls are hoes. Let's turn it around and be empowered in that. Showing your body and showing your skin - or not - should not take any respect away from you."'

Me and all the girls are hoes?
If you want surgery have it?

I don't think those are great messages tbh.

@NiceGerbil

Not caught up. Read this.

'Suddenly you're a hypocrite if you want to show your skin, and you're easy and you're a slut and you're a whore. If I am, then I'm proud. Me and all the girls are hoes. Let's turn it around and be empowered in that. Showing your body and showing your skin - or not - should not take any respect away from you."'

Me and all the girls are hoes?
If you want surgery have it?

I don't think those are great messages tbh.

Again , context. She's not wrong you know. At least on the slut,whore ,easy label given to you by what you wear (or say, how you act,how you behave etc even when there's nothing unusual about it). They get those labels whether they like it or not. Especially if they're also victims of a sexual crime.

Do I agree with the second part? No.
Did I think the same way when younger ,with a similar background? Yes.

Don't forget she's young and navigating all her issues, making sense of it all while massively in public eye. I'm sure her stance will change with age ,maturity and experience. I'm not prepared to write her off just yet.

I meant I had read this, not an instruction to read it!

Yet again, she can wear what she likes as far as I'm concerned. It's just a bit confusing/ of a head fuck for the girls who related to her previous words and dress style iyswim.

I have become allergic to the word empowerment when referring to women and girls. You never hear it in relation to young professional women gaining qualifications or taking leadership opportunities in industry. It only seems to come up in the context of sequin knickers, pole dancing and generally feeding the male gaze.

Every female child star has gone down this road. I'm really not sure why such a fanfare is being made of it. By this I don't mean the rights and wrongs of it. I mean in essence she is a brand and like many before her; Rihanna, Britney, Ariana, Miley have ALL done this whole rebrand from girl into woman with quite a bit of latex, leather and lingerie toboot.

All those saying how super empowering it is for BE to wear a corset in Vogue:

Can you provide any explanation as to why female pop stars have to pose in their underwear to be "empowered" and BTS and all the K-pop boy band megastars don't?

Also let's be clear:

People said Britney Spears "owned her sexuality" and had a "supportive family" once upon a time. That very much turned out not to be the case.

So many female stars talk about being pressured to pose in a certain way or have pictures they weren't comfortable with.

Furthermore the idea of how women on TV should dress is imprinted from a young age. The research from the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in the Media found that female characters were three times more likely to wear revealing clothing than male characters: seejane.org/research-informs-empowers/2020-tv-historic-screen-time-speaking-time-for-female-characters/

I think that now she's 19/20 she's leaving the rebellious teen behind and I feel like she's learning to live and accept her body.

Being a young teen with massive boobs can be very embarrassing especially being in the public eye. So I personally think she hid her body and made out to be non conformist but now as she said herself she feels more "womanly" so maybe wants to try a sexier look as I think she's growing into her own skin, accepting she's got curves and wants a new style as she gets older. Totally up to her!

There's still recent photos of her dressed in her usual photos so I don't think she's completely ditched the look.

@DumplingsAndStew

Surely taking control of her body, of who sees it, where when and how, is a common - and positive, important even - step for any woman.

I think some are picking up on the surgery, and "more of a woman" quotes because of the hot topic on this forum.

Surely feminism supports autonomy over her own body?

Yes but we don't make choices in a vacuum. There's no way she wore that for any other reason than that people will think she's sexy

So she feels sexy now that she's had a change up of her appearance and wants to present herself as sexy.

Why does this seem to be a crime to some of you?

Sexuality is powerful. So yes, it can be empowering. And she's proven that she very much owns her sexuality. She chooses to show what she shows.

It's not as if she had a massive dip in interest and decided to strip down to boost her ratings. She's had a steady growth in her fan base.

She's no less of a role model (although no one is responsible for the example set to your children but you) for owning her sexuality. Everything good about her, her care for her fans, the environment and animals are still there.

@MizMoonshine

So she feels sexy now that she's had a change up of her appearance and wants to present herself as sexy.

Why does this seem to be a crime to some of you?

Sexuality is powerful. So yes, it can be empowering. And she's proven that she very much owns her sexuality. She chooses to show what she shows.

It's not as if she had a massive dip in interest and decided to strip down to boost her ratings. She's had a steady growth in her fan base.

She's no less of a role model (although no one is responsible for the example set to your children but you) for owning her sexuality. Everything good about her, her care for her fans, the environment and animals are still there.

Why don't successful male artists need to use their sexuality if sexuality is so powerful?

Also: why does "Owning your sexuality" always seem to involve wearing fewer items of clothing?

I'll just leave this here.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVmdfsyWcU

She doesn't need to use her sexuality. She chose to.
She chose to show herself that way. The same way she chose to cover herself excessively.
It's got nothing to do with her success as an artist. She was successful before the Vogue cover, she would have been successful if she hadn't done it.

She's not being forced to dress this way.

How else would you propose that someone owns their sexuality?

Perhaps it’s old fashioned of me but I like to ‘own’ my ‘sexuality’ in private. At work I like to do a good job and be respected.

Why should she be any less respected for showing her body? Is she doing her job any less well for doing so?

Her job is to be in the public eye. She has faced, for years, speculation over herself in the way most people haven't. They've been speculating about her body, about her relationships, about her orientation.

She possibly owns her sexuality in the bedroom too. I'm not here to speculate and she hasn't shared that with us.

What she has shared is these images of herself. In the way that she wants to be seen. She's gone one step further in defending these photos.

She is absolutely owning her sexuality by showing her body on her terms.

And she should be respected in that decision.

A lot of male stars must really not own their own sexuality given how little we see of their bodies.

It's certainly some effective marketing. I take it there's a new CD out or something?

@MizMoonshine You keep dodging the question.

Why don't male artists need to "own their sexuality" in the same way?

Male musicians stripping down is definitely a thing.
And less glamorously so.

Her taking ownership of her body and sexuality has nothing to do with her being an artist.

She doesn't have to do it. She chose to.