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Why is the new football ESL so controversial?

320 replies

00100001 · 19/04/2021 07:54

Can some explain like I'm 5?

Why are all the fans, the government, UEFA etc up in arms?

Sorry.... Just not sure what the problem is?

OP posts:
Ifailed · 20/04/2021 07:33

Banning players from playing for their national sides won't do a thing,

It will mean a lot for teams based in the UK. A foreign player can only get a work permit to play here if they've played for their country if it's one of the FIFA rated top 50.
Brexit has already had an impact on UK teams buying players from Europe.

jgw1 · 20/04/2021 07:49

@Ifailed

Banning players from playing for their national sides won't do a thing,

It will mean a lot for teams based in the UK. A foreign player can only get a work permit to play here if they've played for their country if it's one of the FIFA rated top 50.
Brexit has already had an impact on UK teams buying players from Europe.

That's good to hear. A lot of Brexiteers did say they wanted fewer migrants, especially economic migrants.
Rockpipit · 20/04/2021 08:08

@skeggycaggy I just went onto the official MCFC website and could see nothing on the 'club news'. Then the Fans section, supposedly the 'place for you to chat to fans from around the world and share your valuable feedback with the Club. We would love to hear your views on all things City, and we look forward to reading your comments in the latest discussions' guess what, nothing about this! Compared to thousands of comments on the bluemoon forum. City and all these clubs' fans have and are being treated with contempt.

I think the European selective league - beyond arrogance to call it super - goes against sporting ethos and competition.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

DuncinToffee · 20/04/2021 08:22

Banning players from playing for their national sides won't do a thing

Really? Just look at the passion South American players have for their national team.

NeedWineNow · 20/04/2021 09:13

As a long-time Chelsea season ticket holder I'm absolutely appalled by my club entering into this. It's a money grab pure and simple fuelled by rich distant owners who are so disengaged from the fans it's untrue, particularly the Americans who simply don't have the same feeling for the game.

DH and I have said that if Chelsea stay in this, and it goes ahead, we are not renewing our season tickets which for us is really sad - I got my first season ticket 25 years ago and DH had had his for about 40 years - but we really do feel that strongly that this is shameful.

NurseButtercup · 20/04/2021 09:21

I'm probably being very naive with my next question. If 90% of the fans are against it - isn't the solution don't watch/don't pay for tickets for the superleague

ElizabethTudor · 20/04/2021 09:24

@NeedWineNow

As a long-time Chelsea season ticket holder I'm absolutely appalled by my club entering into this. It's a money grab pure and simple fuelled by rich distant owners who are so disengaged from the fans it's untrue, particularly the Americans who simply don't have the same feeling for the game.

DH and I have said that if Chelsea stay in this, and it goes ahead, we are not renewing our season tickets which for us is really sad - I got my first season ticket 25 years ago and DH had had his for about 40 years - but we really do feel that strongly that this is shameful.

And that’s exactly the way for fans to register their disgust - vote with their wallets. 👍🏻
Pedallleur · 20/04/2021 09:28

it is but the model is to sell TV rights. The clubs know the fans will still subscribe to Sky/Amazon and will still want to go to the game/wear the shirt. In the big markets eg Far East this is a dream - seeing the biggest clubs play on a regular basis. Is it a money grab? Yes and EUFA etc are being kept out of it. Those clubs that havent joined eg the big German ones are to be admired. But if the price is right they will

herethereandeverywhere · 20/04/2021 09:31

Unfortunately Elizabeth that may well push the teams towards the ESL. They want to tap revenues from 4bn fans across the globe. The 'legacy fans' are a mere detail. And Covid fanless matches have already proven the show will go on, to be televised anywhere.

Buccanarab · 20/04/2021 10:01

I've been laughing at the faux outrage since the story broke.

Fifa, uefa, la liga, epl etc have all sat back for years and allowed an untouchable elite to form. They've never given a single thought to integrity or fair play as long as the money flowed into their pockets too. Now that same elite have realised that Fifa et al are nothing but a drain on their resources and are set to cut them off, it's brilliant. Fifa have had a monopoly on football since day one and it's nice to see them getting fucked over by the very thing they created.

BronwenFrideswide · 20/04/2021 11:21

@Rahri

It's interesting. I mean UEFA obviously hate the idea and will try to force national leaguew to kick them out. But will they really? I wonder what will happen if it becomes a game of chicken. Because it would decimate the Premier League if they lost those clubs, and mean the money for smaller clubs, and lower leagues was decimated. So if everyone sticks to their current positions, I'm not sure which outcome (kicking them out of the donestic league or not) would be more damaging for domestic football. It is tough - I've worked in grass-roots football and funding is the main problem.

Not saying I support the idea of the "Super League", just fascinated to watch how this will play out. I also think UEFA are largely to blame for this happening, for messing up the Champions League competition in the first place, and being so slow to adopt technology to make the game fair when other sports managed it a decade earlier. It's all very well them trying to take the moral high ground but the corruption at UEFA and the national associations underpins most of the problems that have led to this blow-up.

I agree with you Rahri, corruption runs through FIFA, UEFA and all the national associations, it's from top to bottom and their actions or inaction over the years has allowed this situation to develop, it is a bit rich them seeming to take the high ground now. They haven't given a toss about the fans for a long, long time.

I still fundamentally oppose the new ESL but I think it will happen, money will change hands as that is at the root of all this and is all they want including FIFA and UEFA.

I smirked listening to Perez the President of Real Madrid who will be the Chairman of the ESL bleating about the 'poverty' of these top teams a more self serving individual it would be difficult to find.

Brefugee · 20/04/2021 12:32

It might be financially worth it for them to enter ESL for one year, get paid handsomely, maybe even win proze money, and then re-enter the domestic leagues, with more buying power etc?

but how do they get back into the leagues? If they have been banned, the normal practice would be to make them start at the very lowest tier. If that's a regional league, say the top tier of that, you're still looking at having to win promotion 4 times, in 4 seasons would be the quickest, to get back to the PL. Any silly money they get from the ESL won't cover that, surely? And if they're allowed to return in, say, the Championship, that's a slap in the face to those trying to win promotion from League 1. How would they handle that fairly? promote the top two, drop 6th place from the playoffs and put them in there? Not fair to anyone (except the club trying to get back in)

I've been laughing at the faux outrage since the story broke.

Whose outrage? I agree that FIFA and UEFA and no doubt at least some of the national associations, are corrupt as all get out. And I am ever hopeful, as a passionate football fan, that it will be tackled properly (it won't).

But fans can and should be outraged. But now I'm seeing a LOT of discussion about who the "real" fans are. Is it the 20+ year season ticket holders who go to all home and away games without execption? Is it the fans who follow in the news, on TV and can't get to a match? occasional visitors to the stadium who buy a shirt now and again and have a bumper sticker? Glory hunters?

I have no doubt that even in Europe there is a vast TV market for this. I've had several discussions with Arsenal fans in particular (probably don't like the reality of the European cup) who sneeringly say that they have no interest in playing the likes of Young Boys Bern or Slavia Prague - they just want the big boys, the Real Madrids and the Barcelonas. That's fine if that's what you want, but the YBB and SP fans love those big occasions and the occasional upset in the past has been cheered on by everyone but the big team the minnows have defeated.

I hated it when it started and i hate it now, but the Premier League has chucked up some very exciting matches. But it also sucked the life out of the lower leagues, and the bigger Championship clubs that greedy backers bought, and have practically run into the ground trying and failing to get up there into the big money. And certainly in England the Sky deal has led to fixtures being changed at short notice, to the detriment of and cost to away fans in particular if the fixture suddenly turns out to be a Top Match and worthy of Sunday evening broadcast.

Basically Football in general needs a good kick up the backside. This isn't going to be the trigger, however, but I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

Laffinalltheway · 20/04/2021 13:16

I've had a season ticket for just over 50 years now, ever since I got too big for my Mum and Dad to sneak me under the turnstile when they had season tickets. Mine won't be renewed if this goes ahead.
There's probably only one group that can stop this now, and that's the players themselves. If they refuse to play in it we may get somewhere, but without their support...

sashh · 20/04/2021 13:30

I'm another football ginormous but I can remember some 'big' things that happened so could someone explain how/why this is different to the premier league?

I seem to remember that being reported as 'big clubs breaking away'

BronwenFrideswide · 20/04/2021 14:23

The Premier League works on the basis of allowing promotion into it and relegation from it, the ESL won't. The teams that are the founding members will always remain in it and benefit financially at a higher level than the teams that are apparently going to be invited to take part every season. If one of those invited teams finish at the top and a founding member team finish at the bottom the invited team may not be invited again, will not be rewarded financially at the same level of the founding team and the founding time will remain in the ESL for ever and a day.

I think the Premier League was a mistake, there was no need for it and it was, as this is, solely driven by money and it has paved the way for the ESL.

The Premier League for all it's faults does mean teams can progress and over the years some of the teams who were big names and high in table have been relagated from it. Teams outside the big six can shine, and if they finish in the top three (or is it four?) or win a cup competition they gain entry in the Champions League or UEFA Cup which means playing within Europe, as the manager of Liverpool said last night he is thrilled by the prospect of West Ham being eligible to play in Europe next season, under the ESL West Ham would not be able to do so.

SakuraEdenSwan1 · 20/04/2021 14:37

@Ifailed

I know many see football players (the men anyway) as over-paid prima donnas, but I hope a few at least from the so-called big 6 come out against this proposal. If it goes ahead, I expect Klopp will leave Liverpool, wonder if any other managers would follow?
I will be gutted if Klop leaves, he knew nothing about it until everyone else did, nor the players. I hope something can be done, Liverpool earned their right to be champions by working their arses off, not bought in by their owner.
BronwenFrideswide · 20/04/2021 14:50

Sakura of all the clubs that signed up to this ESL the one that most surprised and shocked me was Liverpool, it seems totally contrary to their ethos and principles.

herethereandeverywhere · 20/04/2021 15:19

It is contrary to the ethos and principles of Liverpool football club.
But that club is owned by Fenway Sports Group, a US money making entity.
They are happy to feed off the passion and devotion of the life long fans (real fans, now known as legacy fans) but also to kick them to the kerb when an opportunity to increase the value of their asset and in turn the money it will throw off arises.
The songs, the flag days, that magic the players are longing to return to the grounds doesn't matter. Subscription tv globally is what they are after - and the increased merch sales as a result.
There's not much normal life left for many fans, since the pandemic began, and this cataclysmic body blow has just taken more of it away. It honestly feels like abuse.

DuncinToffee · 20/04/2021 15:27

And let's not forget Womens football

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56813401

In the assumption that the women's league equivalent would include the same 12 founding clubs, it would be a travesty without European giants Lyon - who picked up a fifth Champions League title in a row last year - and Wolfsburg, who have appeared in five of the last eight finals, winning two.

Rockpipit · 20/04/2021 17:01

So true from Pep Guardiola - “It is not a sport where the relation between the effort and the success, the effort and the reward, does not exist. It is not a sport where success is already guaranteed or it is not a sport when it doesn’t matter where you lose."

pheebumbalatti · 20/04/2021 17:48

A bunch of greedy morons think that another bunch of greedy morons shouldn't be doing business on their turf. A bunch of plebs think any of this matters.

Helen1990 · 20/04/2021 17:57

Its ripping football away from the British supporters it's an absolute disgrace and I'm literally heartbroken about this. These teams and stadiums were created by working class people who wanted something for their communities and now it's being ripped away. The teams who sign up to this shit show need to be banned from all world cups and euros and punished to the highest severity. Absolute outrage

ittakes2 · 20/04/2021 18:05

I find out all confusing too. My husband and son are massive Liverpool fans. My husband explains it that it means top players from the different countries will be able to play against each other. He says Liverpool will still stay in the same UK league unless FIFA don't let them. And this means Liverpool will field their best players in the super league and more younger / inexperienced players will get a turn in the FIFA league.
My son is saying the opposite ie Liverpool won't stay in the same UK league and grassroot football will die.
I think everyone is confused about what it all means.

sweetclems · 20/04/2021 18:34

I can't help but think all this moaning and complaining is a pointless (and hypocritical) waste of time when we all know the first match (and all thereafter) in this new league will be sold out anyway. People always resist change and kick up a fuss like this but i can't believe you're all so shocked and moaning about the fact it's a money grabbing tactic when it was ALREADY shallow and all about money anyway. You can't now turn around and whinge about a problem that's been there all along and try and disguise it as 'about the integrity of the competition'

sweetclems · 20/04/2021 18:36

@ittakes2

I find out all confusing too. My husband and son are massive Liverpool fans. My husband explains it that it means top players from the different countries will be able to play against each other. He says Liverpool will still stay in the same UK league unless FIFA don't let them. And this means Liverpool will field their best players in the super league and more younger / inexperienced players will get a turn in the FIFA league. My son is saying the opposite ie Liverpool won't stay in the same UK league and grassroot football will die. I think everyone is confused about what it all means.
Grass root football will not die and no teams will be kicked out by the FA... I'll eat my shoe. It's all about money and the FA have got as many scruples as the new league and therefore will not ban teams as it means losing money