Why is the new football ESL so controversial?

[00100001]

Can some explain like I'm 5?

Why are all the fans, the government, UEFA etc up in arms?

Sorry.... Just not sure what the problem is?

On the news they just said this stable league thing is a USA model.

@dementedma

Just reflects the obscene amount of money in football. DH who is utterly obsessed with it told me yesterday that if Jose Mourinho has his current contract broken, he will receive a payout of £30 MILLION . To one man! Personally anything that brings about a restart in this bloated sport at the top level, is good news in my book.

Apparently he has received £94m across his 5 sackings...£30m in total of that was from the same club, who sacked him twice (Chelsea).

@herethereandeverywhere

Another Liverpool fan here. They have grossly underestimated the backlash from fans.

The proposed ESL, to my mind, becomes almost 'exhibition football'. Watch the big names (aka the big BRANDS) playing against each other. It's not real football because it's not a real competition. Real football is Watford ending Liverpool's unbeaten run, its Leicester winning the Premiership, its West Ham in contention for a Champions League place, it's over 100 years of history of Liverpool v Everton.
Only a real competition brings the real emotion of the game. Why don't clubs brag about winning the Charity Shield? Or televise testimonials? Because it's the real competition where the passion is and that an intrinsic part of the joy of the game.

The peculiarly worded ESL statement with reference to 4 billion fans of the game globally indicates their loyalty is to the potentially lucrative rights to televise these matches, to reaching markets not yet fully tapped. Not a moment's thought has been given to the real fans, the loyal fans, the ones who sat through losing to Northampton in the rain on a Wednesday night. Who spend money they don't have on their season tickets, who undoubtedly follow and believe in their club with a religious fervour. That passion and devotion is a key element of football. You don't stand at Anfield and sing You'll Never Walk Alone because you purchased your ticket like a commodity. It's because you are the faithful and you believe.
This proposal is a gross abuse of the faithful and it will kill the game as we know it.
I say that as a fan whose team, as it stands, won't qualify for the Champions League next season. But I'll take that over a free pass into exhibition football. That's not football at all.

Perfectly said. And everything you’ve written is absolutely not understood by the $$$-driven CEOs/owners who are behind this utterly mad scheme. It’s an absolute disgrace.

Also are PL going to accept teams going in and out of the official league?

I think the idea is that if a club wanted to return to the PL they would have to work their way up from being a non league side.

James Milner has spoken out against the super league as has Patrick Bamford

"I don't like it and I hope it doesn't happen."

I genuinely don't understand why people keep pointing to Leicester as proof that anyone can win the PL. They are the sole exception in almost 20 years! You have to go back to what 1995 to someone other than these top 6 winning the league.

I knew the Glazers would be nothing but trouble. I'm going to have to dig out my Glazers Out wrist bands I bought outside Old Trafford.

I don't suppose it will happen if the FA and UEFA threaten to ban them from other competitions. I'm very disappointed but not at all surprised by Man United's role in this.

A lot of these clubs are debt financed. It's not as much a case of making millions but of protecting the whole house of cards from crashing down.

@FedUpWithBriiiiick

It's disgusting. As a lifelong Liverpool fan I'm so disappointed in the club. I'm sure the same goes for many of us on here who are fans of the so-called Big 6.

I mean what gives Arsenal (no domestic/Euro cups in over a decade) the right to be there over Leicester?

It's because the 12 clubs involved are recognisable "global brands" (famous in US, Asia and ME) hoping to maximise revenue overseas by having a proto-World Series. Big money making fixtures. The impact on domestic clubs and grassroots football is insurmountable.

I hope the PL, FA, UEFA throw the book at the big 6. Shame on them. I'm particularly disappointed in LFC. YNWA indeed...

Sorry for the rant. I really am quite cross about this.

This.

The owners of the Big 6 and the other clubs don't care about the game or the fans but are only after more money. Pure greed.
It will rip the Premiership apart and destroy the game.

Real football fans would never want this

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Im sure there was all the same arguing and hand wringing over the establishment of the premier league?

It certainly did create super-clubs. But it hasnt seemed to destroy peoples love of the sport.

People are not hand wringing. What a dope. You obviously don't understand fans support for football clubs.... 🙄 hand wringing FFS

Surely someone must’ve started an online petition? It would be good to demonstrate just how much opposition there is to this.

Will teams be demoted/relegated out of the league as with 'normal' divisions? Or will they just be at the bottom of the league and hope to make their way back up?

No, the founding members of this Super League will remain in it for ever, no relegation for them effectively they could end up at the bottom every time but are still permanent members and will still reap the mega bucks.

It will essentially be the same teams playing each other over and over again, ad nauseum. Normally matches between these 12 are high points as they are not guaranteed and therefore far more interesting.

The Champions League and the UEFA Cup allow the opportunity for teams from different countries to play against the well known 'big' clubs (the ones who are pushing for this Super League) and on occasion beat them, it does happen.

As others have said it will be a very elite closed shop, mega money for the owners of these clubs don't believe their protestations about it trickling money down to all the lower league clubs, it's all about the billionaire owners of these clubs making even more billions.

They want to stay in the Premier League as well, this is after complaining that they are expected to play too much football!, however, the Premier League have intimated that they won't allow them to stay.

It's a mess, battle lines are being drawn but the one and only reason for the club owners who are doing this is money for themselves.

OP, the current equivalent or closest to this new Super League currently is the Champions League which includes clubs right across Europe and to qualify for that the clubs have to have finished in the top three of their domestic leagues or won a domestic cup competition, this allows for clubs from smaller nations to compete against the like of Real Madrid. However those setting up this Super League don't like this system because it doesn't guarantee them a place as they don't always finish high up enough in their leagues or win cup competitions.

Interestingly the team I think will win this years Champions League, Paris St. Germain have said they have no intention of joining this new League and they are one of the best teams in Europe. Also the top German teams are swerving it.

As someone else said it is pure unadulterated greed, remarkably it is being financed by loans put together by JP Morgan Bank to the tune of billions secured on possible revenue streams from TV, sponsorship, etc., and a number of the clubs involved have massive debts, Barcelona is in debt to the tune of £1 billion, a nice little sweetner of £3 billion is being offered to the clubs joining, I'm not sure if that's between them or each. It's just obscene money grabbing.

But why can't the clubs that aren't in the super league not just carry on how they have been amongst themselves? I've read the all the comments and I still can't fathom why this is such a huge problem. The world of football has been commodified for years - it hasn't been about the fans for a long time for the bigger clubs, so isn't this just a natural evolution of the game in a globalised context? I don't mean to disparage those who love the football, but why are the government and Prince William getting involved when they stay silent on so many other matters?

CebiaTree, yes the other clubs can carry on within the Premier League.

However, this will destroy the Champions League which is a way for clubs from all over Europe to participate and reap the rewards of that participation. The founding members of this new Super League can never be relegated from this new League therefore they will always be playing the big ticket games, there will be no opportunity for lesser teams to participate, it will create an untouchable elite who will have even more money and buying power than they have now which will lead to them paying even more obscene amounts of money for players plus even higher wages, the teams on the outside will be unable to compete which will mean effectively a closed shop.

The Fair Play rules were brought in in an effort to curb these excesses, they already don't work as well as they should they would be useless against this.

It stifles fair competition and opportunity.

I, sadly, think it will go ahead vast sums of money for the few always seems to win out.

The platitudes from the clubs wanting to do this that it will mean more money for the lower clubs should be taken with a very large pinch of salt, the already wealthy will be pocketing the cash.

The Government and Prince William are getting involved because they can see how this will end up.

For those who are wondering why Arsenal and Spurs were invited to the (obscene, greedy, sickening) party, it’s because they are among the most valuable and globally recognised football clubs in the world (despite at least Spurs’ relative lack of trophies).

The current top 20 most valuable clubs according to Forbes are:

1. Barcelona – $4.76 billion
2. Real Madrid – $4.75 billion
3. Bayern Munich – $4.215 billion
4. Manchester United – $4.2 billion
5. Liverpool – $4.1 billion
6. Manchester City – $4 billion
7. Chelsea – $3.2 billion
8. Arsenal – $2.88 billion
9. Paris Saint-Germain – $2.5 billion
10. Tottenham – $2.3 billion
11. Juventus – $2 billion
12. Borussia Dortmund – $1.9 billion
13. Atletico Madrid – $1 billion
14. Inter Milan – $743 million
15. Everton – $658 million
16. AC Milan – $559 million
17. AS Roma – $548 million
18. West Ham – $508 million
19. Leicester – $455 million
20. Ajax – $413 million

It's interesting. I mean UEFA obviously hate the idea and will try to force national leaguew to kick them out. But will they really? I wonder what will happen if it becomes a game of chicken. Because it would decimate the Premier League if they lost those clubs, and mean the money for smaller clubs, and lower leagues was decimated. So if everyone sticks to their current positions, I'm not sure which outcome (kicking them out of the donestic league or not) would be more damaging for domestic football. It is tough - I've worked in grass-roots football and funding is the main problem.

Not saying I support the idea of the "Super League", just fascinated to watch how this will play out. I also think UEFA are largely to blame for this happening, for messing up the Champions League competition in the first place, and being so slow to adopt technology to make the game fair when other sports managed it a decade earlier. It's all very well them trying to take the moral high ground but the corruption at UEFA and the national associations underpins most of the problems that have led to this blow-up.

@CeibaTree

But why can't the clubs that aren't in the super league not just carry on how they have been amongst themselves? I've read the all the comments and I still can't fathom why this is such a huge problem. The world of football has been commodified for years - it hasn't been about the fans for a long time for the bigger clubs, so isn't this just a natural evolution of the game in a globalised context? I don't mean to disparage those who love the football, but why are the government and Prince William getting involved when they stay silent on so many other matters?

Ha! Exactly. When you have Prince William on the FA board that tells you everything. They barely even play football at private schools. What the hell does he know about it, or what it means to the fans who spend such a large proportion of their income to be able to attend matches. Who go for the atmosphere, rather than sitting in a Royal box? He has no idea. Same as most people on the FA and UEFA boards. The best way to fix this would be to kick them ALL out and start again with people who actually know something about a) the sport, and b) corporate governance.

I think the 5 clubs will earn a place through domestic leagues and after that season that's it and it's a new 5 the next season? So there's no relegation as such it's always just the same founding 15 + 5 of the next best?

I can't see how that's an attractive proposition for any team. They almost certainly be relegated back into their own national league possibly following a 10 team playoff (?) when they're already moaning about how many matches they play. After that depending on what UEFA come up with they will either start at the very bottom of a regional league to work their way up (fair? probably) or parachuted back into the premier league or championship (fair? not on any other team in the league since we won't know how many of these teams there may be). As a club owner, not one of the renegade six I'd be saying a resounding "no".

There's always a lot of discussion about what "fan" is with bitter arguments about "if you don't go to the wet Wednesday in Wigan" away match, you're a plastic-fan. If you grew up in the 80s 90s and are a Man U fan, you're a plastic fan or glory hunter. For some there is only the "i used to go with my grandad in my flat cap with his whippet and 27 of us would share a meat pie and a cup of bovril on the stands at half time" and everyone else doesn't count.

But. Fans who never go to the stadium count. Who can't afford it, don't like it, distance, timing, whatever keeps them away. The potential television audience is massive. And while football on TV is weird when you can only hear "pass it you useless fucker" and that short of shout (which i kind of like) it will still attract an audience.

PP mentioned that it's based on the US model. They do indeed have a closed league with no relegation. But they also have the draft and salary caps which (arguably) makes it a lot fairer.

People rightly say Liverpool vs Barca is exciting because it's rare, and i agree. And i vehemently disagree that the CL should be more of that and less of Young Boys Bern vs Slavia Prage (for eg, that doesn't really happen either) or Arsenal "wasting their time" having to play Mönchengladbach or Brondby. For me the weird combinations and teams I've never heard of who may pull off a shocker against Real Madrid are the matches that make the early rounds of the CL really exciting. I want to keep that.

Banning players from playing for their national sides won't do a thing, in fact I think it would be a relief for most of them.
What they earn from international duties is a drop in the ocean to most of them.
Banning the clubs from their domestic leagues where the players earn 5 million + in most cases will have much more effect.

People need to stop paying ridiculous money for Sky Sports etc as well, this has been going on for years, facilitated by normal people being willing to spend more and more on football. Surely it's time to start boycotting?

Presumably the guest 5 each year would be tempted by moooooooney, if they then have to stop playing in the domestic and champion leagues?

It might be financially worth it for them to enter ESL for one year, get paid handsomely, maybe even win proze money, and then re-enter the domestic leagues, with more buying power etc?

I assume the plan for 5 teams to go into it each season just for that season will probably have to change if it means they would be kicked out of their domestic league as surely nothing would tempt them then.

@Rahri

It's interesting. I mean UEFA obviously hate the idea and will try to force national leaguew to kick them out. But will they really? I wonder what will happen if it becomes a game of chicken. Because it would decimate the Premier League if they lost those clubs, and mean the money for smaller clubs, and lower leagues was decimated. So if everyone sticks to their current positions, I'm not sure which outcome (kicking them out of the donestic league or not) would be more damaging for domestic football. It is tough - I've worked in grass-roots football and funding is the main problem.

Not saying I support the idea of the "Super League", just fascinated to watch how this will play out. I also think UEFA are largely to blame for this happening, for messing up the Champions League competition in the first place, and being so slow to adopt technology to make the game fair when other sports managed it a decade earlier. It's all very well them trying to take the moral high ground but the corruption at UEFA and the national associations underpins most of the problems that have led to this blow-up.

I agree with this. There is a lot of blustering on both sides, the premier league won’t kick them out, it punishes the lower leagues and grassroots as much as it punishes the ‘big 6’. No disrespect to these teams but sky/bt will not pay the same for the rights to Everton v Leeds as they will for Liverpool v Man Utd.

Nor will UEFA ban individual players from playing for their country. Just look at the England team for example, it would be decimated, just off the top of my head all of these England players play in the ‘big 6’ - Maguire, stones, Walker, Henderson, Alexander Arnold, Rashford, Kane, Foden, sterling.

I don’t agree with it, it spoils the big European nights of the champions league but I think we need to remember it’s the owners that are behind this not the players/managers/clubs!