Why is the new football ESL so controversial?

[00100001]

Can some explain like I'm 5?

Why are all the fans, the government, UEFA etc up in arms?

Sorry.... Just not sure what the problem is?

I agree about the magic of the FA cup and the David and Goliath thing. My local lower league team knocked one of those ‘big six’ clubs out of the FA cup many years ago, and people still talk about it years later. I won’t say which club, but you might be able to guess as it was huge news. It was all over the back and front pages of the papers and I can still remember my DM shouting ‘we’ve beaten *!!!’ in astonishment!

It would”d be such a shame for that to vanish.

@herethereandeverywhere 👏👏👏 fantastic post.

I think Klopp might walk.

DH, who worked for years in PL football, says it comes up regularly every few years when the top clubs want to squeeze more money out of current deals.

It seems very ill-conceived. I mean, do I want to watch Barcelona play Man City (as an example)?

Well, yes, but if it's basically non-competitive, where's the excitement going to come from? It'll be nice to be at the top of the league - and no doubt financially good for the club - but ultimately meaningless.

Who are they imagining will travel round Europe every few weeks to watch games? Certainly not the thousands of fans who would travel to watch them domestically, and then travel to watch them in the Champions League. Who has that money these days?

Ohhh, that's right. These teams and people who already have more money than they could ever spend.

Oh yeah and the Glazers are the origins of this. I remember chatting, informally, to someone who advisesadvised them/Utd years ago, like a decade ago, and even then they were talking of having to respond to 'what if we broke away and set up our own league?' questions from the Glazers. Not a single shit given for the faithful that supported through their nothing years of the 80s, who sing from the stands rain or shine. They only want the money.
It's abuse. These clubs are what they are today because of the passion of the fans. Not because some suits cooked up a cracking money spinner.

Ds is a Man City fan and hr's apalled. He says it will be teh death of football. Nothing to play for, no FA cup or incentive to get into the Champions league. Without the big clubs in the Premiership and the FA cup potential for huge losses of sponsorship. No chance for smaller clubs to get a bit of revenue by playing a larger club in the cup. No local derbies. Half the fun of being a fan is ribbing your mates on a Monday if your team did well and theirs lost and vice versa. It's expensive enough to attend matches, do they really think fans can travel round Europe.

Aside from all the other comments, no French or German teams, so hardly European. No Porto who won the Champions League in 2003, no Monaco who were runners up.

@newnortherner111

Aside from all the other comments, no French or German teams, so hardly European. No Porto who won the Champions League in 2003, no Monaco who were runners up.

Great point. Hope Bayern, Dortmund and PSG hold the line and stay away.

Thank you 00100001 for starting this thread.

I am also at a complete loss to understand why the new European Super League was so controversial.

My thought was, well if clubs want to join a new competition, let them.
But thank to posters who are explaining the impact.

OK, it's all becoming a bit clearer why this is a shit show.

a few more questions - sorry!

Now the "bottom 5" of the ESL. 5 teams have a chance to get into the ESL through qualifying tournaments. Is this like the relegation zone? So if you're in the bottom 5 at the end of the season, you're out?

Or is it a case of there are always going to be 5 spaces for new teams for that year? So, let's imagine "Newtown Wanderers United" qualify for ESL in 2023, do they play in that for a year, and then kicked out? Or if they get to position 10, they stay in the ESL and another team (let's pick on Arsenal) who ended up in position 20, is relegated out?

Or, is the 5 teams always the same after Year 1?

Can the founding teams ever be knocked out of the ESL?

If relegation occurs - where do they "go"? Where are the playing their 'normal' football matches?

I'm so disappointed in Arsenal. Founded by the working class, now a capitalist cash cow, have stopped even pretending to be connected to their roots. It's abysmal, and they have a lot to answer for. People are calling for the players to strike, which would be fantastic, but I'm not sure it will happen.

@00100001

OK, it's all becoming a bit clearer why this is a shit show.

a few more questions - sorry!

Now the "bottom 5" of the ESL. 5 teams have a chance to get into the ESL through qualifying tournaments. Is this like the relegation zone? So if you're in the bottom 5 at the end of the season, you're out?

Or is it a case of there are always going to be 5 spaces for new teams for that year? So, let's imagine "Newtown Wanderers United" qualify for ESL in 2023, do they play in that for a year, and then kicked out? Or if they get to position 10, they stay in the ESL and another team (let's pick on Arsenal) who ended up in position 20, is relegated out?

Or, is the 5 teams always the same after Year 1?

Can the founding teams ever be knocked out of the ESL?

If relegation occurs - where do they "go"? Where are the playing their 'normal' football matches?

The founding 12 (15 if the other mystery 3 get onboard) clubs can never be knocked out.

@FedUpWithBriiiiick

It's disgusting. As a lifelong Liverpool fan I'm so disappointed in the club. I'm sure the same goes for many of us on here who are fans of the so-called Big 6.

I mean what gives Arsenal (no domestic/Euro cups in over a decade) the right to be there over Leicester?

It's because the 12 clubs involved are recognisable "global brands" (famous in US, Asia and ME) hoping to maximise revenue overseas by having a proto-World Series. Big money making fixtures. The impact on domestic clubs and grassroots football is insurmountable.

I hope the PL, FA, UEFA throw the book at the big 6. Shame on them. I'm particularly disappointed in LFC. YNWA indeed...

Sorry for the rant. I really am quite cross about this.

Agreed, my eldest 2 kids are raging this morning, massive Liverpool fans who feel completed cheated on all for money.

Oops. Posted too soon. Also, the 5 that "qualify", I imagine that UEFA will take a dim view of them.

00100001
Those details haven't been explained yet (they may well be being withheld as leverage/negotiation chips for dealing with the national leagues, UEFA and FIFA)

@SakuraEdenSwan1

Mine too, I think the outrage of fans supporting the big 6 speaks volumes. If it was an honour, they would be jubilant, but it's not, and I think it actually shows a remarkable capacity for empathy towards the smaller clubs, even if they are adversaries. My DB is a LFC fan and is furious on Everton's behalf, even if every other day of the week he considers himself their biggest rival. It's this vocality from fans of the big 6 that will really make a difference, unfortunately.

Another disgusted fan here, Spurs season ticket holder.

I am holding on to the hope that it is some kind of negotiating tactic with UEFA to allow clubs to get more Champions League revenues (ha ha that Spurs should assume they have Champions League revenues every year). Not that they should be doing that anyway, but it's better than a genuine desire to set up such a dull European rogue competition.

I actually have very little interest in European football, I am much more interested in the domestic competitions. If it does actually happen and the FA then ban Spurs and the other teams from the Premier League (which would be the correct thing to do in my opinion) then it really is the death of football.

Basically, this new league makes a mockery of the entire competitive football structure. The reward for doing well in the league is to gain yourself a European place. If you have already got an automatic one by virtue of your place in other competition, then the integrity of the domestic league has gone.

Yes, ds is fuming.

It's franchising. Popular with American sports ( I don't follow closely so couldn't tell you which ones) and at least one (US owned esports league).

As well as the I.pact domestically, it can lead to a rather dull league (depending on how they set it up). You can end with mediocre teams in your super league because they bought themselves in, teams don't get relegated if they performances drop, and it is difficult for other teams who improve and get very good to get a place in the super league. It can also lead to the recycling of big name players (ie: they move around teams) even if their performance drops because they are the people fans want to see. And what matters to the owners is the merchandise and sponsorship opportunities of their super league. So it can stop the progression of talented less well known players.

There is such little interest in European football that Man City regularly offer bulk tickets to European matches to local schools for £5 each.

@FedUpWithBriiiiick do you think Bayern, Dort and PSG are likely to be any of the non announced teams? I was shocked to see them not involved so far.

I can almost understand it with countries where there isn't too much competition for the equivalent of Premier League champions (such as Scotland) but the EPL has had a huge range of winners and it is a much more open race to the top. It is very disappointing and totally fueled by greed. Although if the FA do throw the 6 out of the Premier League it would allow more inclusion at lower levels as teams are moved around to fill the gaps!

[quote babbaloushka]@FedUpWithBriiiiick do you think Bayern, Dort and PSG are likely to be any of the non announced teams? I was shocked to see them not involved so far.[/quote]
I think it's unlikely that any German teams will sign up. Their rules state that a big 'investor' owner can only hold up to 49% of the club - the rest is often owned by the fans. Therefore it's very unlikely that a German club would sign up to this as it would require the fans backing (and as this thread shows it's hardly a popular move amongst genuine fans).

Info above re German club ownership is off the top of my head, I could be wrong about that!

Well, that will be a bit of crap show if the 5 guest teams each year finish in the top 5 positions LOL

So there's no threat of relegation for the founding teams? The only incentive (presumably) is, higher you are, the more money you win?

Ok, getting to see it as a "private members club" - with 5 spaces for membership into their exclusive club, that they hope the domestic teams will be fighting over?

It's also a reflection of the debt that some of these clubs have built up to get to their current status. Barcelona have over €1bn debt.

They're managing themselves like poorly run corporations and have decided to throw the rest of the football world under the bus to get some cash back for themselves. Some people.say how this is capitalism gone mad, but capitalism, run properly, should actually appreciate the long term value in grassroots football and faithful fans. It's short termism, stupid, and so sad.