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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
MiaRoma · 14/04/2021 06:31

Its a shame that these sort of situations exist. It would have been much better if your FIL had kept MIL in the loop whilst he was alive

catnidge · 14/04/2021 06:32

Only speaking for myself, but we've slipped into defined roles. DH and I have been together 33 years. I work and he is retired.

He does utilities, car maintenance etc. I do holiday booking, social activities and food shop online.

I guess I'd be quite blank when asked about the utilities!

Sounds like your mil is overwhelmed with grief. The rug has been torn from under her and everything is so difficult to deal with.

Be patient, write everything down for her in an alphabetically ordered book, so she can look things up.

I also think the past year of covid living has knocked many peoples confidence in their ability to manage life.

Over time, mil will begin to manage. Encourage her to do part of each job, with supervision and then gradually hand over more responsibility to her.

HamStory · 14/04/2021 06:34

@StarCat2020

90% of women who have it are undiagnosed Sorry but this claim is totally fact less.

Also ADHD is not an excuse for everything.

It is a fucking nightmare of an issue which results in a waste of a life and years (until diagnosis) of being made to feel shit.

Here's a link from ADDitude magazine claiming that 85% of adults with ADHD don't know that they have it. I can't find the article I was originally thinking about but it basically said the figure is lower in men and higher and women so the 85% is in the middle. So not factless although I haven't studied the research in forensic detail.

And when did I say ADHD is an excuse for everything? Just that this level of difficulty might suggest an underlying condition.

HamStory · 14/04/2021 06:34

Sorry, link is:

www.additudemag.com/adults-are-you-part-of-the-85-percent/

Therewereroses · 14/04/2021 06:34

One of my exes worked in an unskilled manual job and had left school early. He was utterly hopeless with anything life admin related and with hindsight, with anything really lol. On one occasion, he went into the bank to lodge a work cheque and they offered him a loan of up to £2000 pre-approved. A week later he comes home delighted with himself that he had taken out this loan. A little bemused, I asked what was he buying. His answer? "Nothing, but if they're giving it to me I might as well take it." What a fucking idiot.

MiaRoma · 14/04/2021 06:34

@JustLyra

I can absolutely guarantee you on the lives of both of my beloved children there was no financial abuse. His complete control of the finances was because he was a retired senior tax inspector who was relieving his beloved wife of a job she hated and had no interest in doing. He really was one of the loveliest men that ever lived.

I’m not going to get into a debate with you, but you cannot guarantee that at all. No-one can except your MIL.

It’s also questionable how lovely it is to encourage our spouse to be so ignorant of your finances that they are unable to cope alone.

Dementia is something you should keep a very close eye on because unless she’s had some sort of brain injury there’s no way someone should lose so much life skill ability in 10 years.

Good luck with it all

I agree with this. There is no way that you can know about the inner workings of your inlaws relationship.

And it seems incredible that MIL has lost so much knowledge in 10 years. Perhaps she likes the attention she receives when she 'can't do something '

AbsolutelyPatsy · 14/04/2021 06:37

many men of this age can't cope alone, cannot cook, use the washing machine.
she is bereaved and can't think straight by the sound of things.

FoolsAssassin · 14/04/2021 06:37

Really sorry for your loss 🌷

Whilst I can see that the OP could (and obviously has ) annoyed some people I see it as the OP approaching this as a way approaching how she might approach her work.

I don’t think her original post is cold, I think it’s just dufferent in style to some of you and the OP genuinely wants to do the best for MIL so doing her research . This might seem really weird to some of you but I have seen people do this after a loss before, it’s a coping strategy some people use and just because she phrases things differently to how some of you do it doesn’t make her cold.

OP I think you are very sensible to be considering if there is anything underlying. As others have said early dementia is often masked until the loss of a partner. Too early to know what’s down to grief at the moment and the nature of their relationship but good to keep an eye just in case.

Temp023 · 14/04/2021 06:38

I haven’t paid a utility bill this century because I haven’t had to. But I’m not stupid, I’m sure I could work it out if I had to.

HilaryThorpe · 14/04/2021 06:40

I am in my seventies and no I don't think this is common in my friends and family. It sounds to me like a combination of grief, a bit of learned helplessness and perhaps most of all, facing up to the fact that doing all this "stuff" is an acknowledgement of the reality of the death of her husband.
It does emphasise how important it is to have everything in order. We have a folder that the children know about, which has a list of who has to be contacted, bank accounts, utilities, wills, pensions etc. It would be essential for them if we died together, but also helpful for a surviving spouse. Useful for people of any age, I would think.

AbsolutelyPatsy · 14/04/2021 06:40

please dont be in such a hurry to diagnose a grieving widow.

Therewereroses · 14/04/2021 06:40

Same idiot could not read the instructions on anything to be cooked. He could read. Perfectly. Nothing wrong with his intelligence. However, the twit would come to me every single time with "how do I cook this?" "Well, I don't fucking know, what does it say on the instructions?" That would be fine except that he couldn't adjust the oven temp down by 20 degrees for a fan oven so I'd have to get up and do it myself. Couldn't trust him to read washing labels, how to work a washing machine, anything really. He had to be supervised doing everything as he was a menace when left alone. It was like having a toddler. I suspect that he had dyscalculia.

Bluepumpkinwife · 14/04/2021 06:41

When I was 16 best friends dad left. Her mother couldn’t do ANYTHING. I mean anything. She had no idea how much debt they were in, what money was coming in, how to cook, wash clothes, clean, make a doctors appointment... work?! She did nothing while married absolutely nothing. She didn’t even know the PIN number for bank card. She is currently only mid 50’s so no excuse for this in my opinion.
In my current role at work I come across many many women and men who don’t do life admin (no mental disability of any kind)

  • don’t open post (at all)
  • don’t budget
  • no email address
  • can’t organise appointments or attend them on time
Its unbelievable how some people get through life!
WorriedMillie · 14/04/2021 06:42

When my DDad died, my mum struggled with a few things that he’d taken responsibility for (I dare say he’d have struggled with more, if it were the other way round). I think it was partly grief and partly a confidence thing with mum, she just needed someone (me, as an only child) to sit beside her, while she became confident
She’d never filled up that particular car with fuel, although when she had her own car, she’d looked after that. I went to the petrol station with her and helped her figure it out, now she does it without a second thought
Dad did all of the driving, I encouraged her to come out, firstly with me, then alone and now she’ll drive pretty much anywhere
MOTs, mowing the lawn, putting a nail in the wall, taking care of the finances were all stumbling blocks
The death admin stuff was hard, but again, I sat with her, chatted to the coroner on her behalf, liaised with the funeral directors.
We met with the bereavement person at the bank and he helped with the necessary

For us, it was about me not stepping into Dad’s shoes and doing all those things for her, but supporting and encouraging her to be able to do them herself, she just needed me to hold her hand the first few times and allow her to go at her own pace, given her grief (they were married for 50years)

Now, she’s flying, she’s proud of herself for how far she’s come and I’m proud of her too. She still asks for support with new things (IT, for eg), but she’ll give anything a go!

Chicchicchicchiclana · 14/04/2021 06:42

@Harriettheoriginalspy

You don’t sound very nice
Is this necessary?
JustJustWhy · 14/04/2021 06:42

This sounds like my Mum a bit. She can use email and the internet but my Dad has been like a Dad to her since she was 16. He's a wonderful man and just wanted to be the family protector but this meant coddling Mum for her whole life and trying to do everything for us kids which was stifling. He did it with love but it was hard to fight for our independence. As he got older he became full of admiration of us kids but has begun to realise that what he did out of love for my Mum has meant that she has never had to do anything herself - like paying bills or arranging mortgages.

Sparrowfeeder · 14/04/2021 06:44

My 71 y/o DM is like this but she got divorced in her early 30s! She was a single parent on benefits and bad at admin, chaotic really. Still is! Homeless and staying in our spare room, co plains but takes no actionn.
I was recently diagnosed with adhd and I am 99.9% sure my Dm also has it (she just thinks symptoms I suffer are ‘normal’ so isn’t keen to pursue her own diagnosis). Meanwhile I have to struggle on with mine and her admin, plus a demanding legal job, while DM is a passenger in her own life. She will always be a person who stuff happens to...

BeautyGoesToBenidorm · 14/04/2021 06:44

My parents were like this. My mum was the primary caregiver, never learned to drive, took care of all housework, cooking etc. My dad worked long hours, but was fanatical about taking care of the bills, bank account, pensions etc.

When he was diagnosed with Huntington's disease, and his cognitive decline became horribly apparent, my mum didn't have the slightest clue what to do with anything.

We had to arrange power of attorney, deal with adult social care, the banks/insurers, everything. I live 4 hours away and had to help her do everything by phone.

For the record, she's 73 and there IS a degree of learned helplessness there. She COULD do this stuff, but whilst I'm around, she doesn't see why she should.

Faultymain5 · 14/04/2021 06:45

@FortunesFave

You sound almost gleeful OP. You really do. There's something very distasteful about the way you keep saying "not the faintest idea!" "flummoxed!" "wide eyed!" and so on.
Actually the OP hasn’t said anything. It’s actually distasteful how you have chosen to interpret the tone of what she has written.
peak2021 · 14/04/2021 06:45

Many couples had or have divided up household tasks. The comment made by the former Prime Minister Theresa May about which tasks were those of her husband Philip I am sure are not unusual circumstances. My parents were the same and had it not been for my dad's failing eyesight, my mum would have been partly in the same situation as the OPs MIL.

1AngelicFruitCake · 14/04/2021 06:46

My mum is like this to an extent. I am late 30s and can think of someone my age who wouldn’t know how to pay bills, arrange appointments etc. Doesn’t drive which is fine but doesn’t use the train or bus so reliant on their partner. I can’t understand it. It would make me feel so vulnerable to be that reliant on my partner.

Sparrowfeeder · 14/04/2021 06:47

She can’t use computers, the internet or email. Can’t book doctors appts, she would rather go blind with glaucoma than get it checked out. She does no admin, just ignores the big important ‘do this now’letters. Won’t pay bills etc. Can’t budget. Also a full on hoarder too btw. No executive function skills whatsoever!

1AngelicFruitCake · 14/04/2021 06:49

@JustJustWhy

This sounds like my Mum a bit. She can use email and the internet but my Dad has been like a Dad to her since she was 16. He's a wonderful man and just wanted to be the family protector but this meant coddling Mum for her whole life and trying to do everything for us kids which was stifling. He did it with love but it was hard to fight for our independence. As he got older he became full of admiration of us kids but has begun to realise that what he did out of love for my Mum has meant that she has never had to do anything herself - like paying bills or arranging mortgages.
‘Mollycoddling’ is the right word here. In both cases I mentioned it is done with love but there’s no thought for how important it is that everyone has a grasp on basic life skills.
ElphabaTheGreen · 14/04/2021 06:50

@FoolsAssassin

Really sorry for your loss 🌷

Whilst I can see that the OP could (and obviously has ) annoyed some people I see it as the OP approaching this as a way approaching how she might approach her work.

I don’t think her original post is cold, I think it’s just dufferent in style to some of you and the OP genuinely wants to do the best for MIL so doing her research . This might seem really weird to some of you but I have seen people do this after a loss before, it’s a coping strategy some people use and just because she phrases things differently to how some of you do it doesn’t make her cold.

OP I think you are very sensible to be considering if there is anything underlying. As others have said early dementia is often masked until the loss of a partner. Too early to know what’s down to grief at the moment and the nature of their relationship but good to keep an eye just in case.

Thank you. Exactly. Getting a bit fed up of the ‘judgemental’ comments and assumptions that we’ve abandoned her to work it out herself. She practically lived with us from the day he became seriously ill in November, and we have supported her with everything without any ill-feeling (no, truly, I/we have NONE, I guess it’s just my writing style that some of you don’t get) or complaint and only left her to stuff when she indicated to us she was managing it, but still kept a close eye, which ended up being a good move as she obviously wasn’t.

Good point from the PP who also suggested DH’s surprise at her struggle with all of this is coloured by his own grief.

@mantlepiece Thank you for that lovely post from your perspective.

OP posts:
candlemasbells · 14/04/2021 06:50

It has happened with DP and I to a certain extent, the only example I can think is I was very competent with a chainsaw and did all my own firewood. Two weeks into dating he started bringing me wood and I’ve not chopped wood since. If something happened to him I’d have

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