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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
JackieLavertysWeirdVoice · 21/04/2021 15:03

@nitsandwormsdodger

Be kind she is grieving
Read the thread?

Or at least the OP's posts. There's a technological tool for that.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/04/2021 16:53

"Her MIL would only have been in her 40s when email and the Internet first started to be used in schools in the 1990s, and it would have been difficult to avoid as a teacher."

My DM was a teacher at that time and can't even switch on a computer.

Changechangychange · 21/04/2021 17:16

My DM was a teacher at that time and can't even switch on a computer

I was at university in the late 90s, and we had email addresses but nobody really used them for anything. I used to log in once a week or so.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/04/2021 17:21

@Changechangychange

My DM was a teacher at that time and can't even switch on a computer

I was at university in the late 90s, and we had email addresses but nobody really used them for anything. I used to log in once a week or so.

I used mine, but only to communicate with other students and not only at my uni. Also had a postmaster email address.
JackieLavertysWeirdVoice · 21/04/2021 17:25

I thought the OP said her MiL was a secondary school teacher up till 2010-11?

The pp was making the point that computer tech was widespread in schools from the 1990s.

So MiL had 15 years to learn it. I was in Higher Ed and it was forced on us via compulsory training, specialist groups, performance reviews and - bottom line - inspections.

There was, truly, no escape. And I'm glad of it.

There's got to be (have been) something else going on.

mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 17:27

I knew women my sort of age who were discouraged from learning to drive by their husbands, wouldn't sit beside them to do practice, at all, said if they learned they wouldn't be allowed to drive husband's vehicle, so there was a huge mountain to climb, they found it hard to afford lessons on their own resources. I've known women of my mother's generation who had not been allowed to learn to drive, not just had it made difficult for them to do so. They couldn't have bought a car on finance as you needed your husband to do it, seems abusive these days

It was abusive all that time. What has changed is that we have finally opened our eyes to its true nature.

Recycledblonde · 21/04/2021 17:33

My DH is like this with mobile phones, he is a perfectly capable man who can devise complicated excel formulae and is incredibly good at anything mathematical plus having very good comprehension skills. I think he’s perversely proud of not engaging with mobiles, he uses them but can’t remember how to change from WiFi to 4G if WiFi is playing up, how to mute a WhatsApp chat or turn off any notifications. It drives me insane as he just moans about being disturbed by constant beeps. I show him how to do it but next time he still doesn’t/won’t remember. He doesn’t ask for help just mutters darkly. We’re both in our 50s but have used tech stuff at work for donkeys years.

bluebluezoo · 21/04/2021 17:38

I was at university in the late 90s, and we had email addresses but nobody really used them for anything. I used to log in once a week or so

I was at uni early- mid 90’s and email was fairly common. I had my own computer at home with dial up by 1996, and was definitely emailing as a regular thing by the late 90’s.

JackieLavertysWeirdVoice · 21/04/2021 17:40

I feign incompetence with Facebook because I'm not interested.

Once when I had been really ill for a while I just pretty much lost my confidence, and didn't want to do anything. Not even a phone call.

Everyone's complicated in their own simple way.

mermaidsariel · 22/04/2021 00:07

@Recycledblonde

My DH is like this with mobile phones, he is a perfectly capable man who can devise complicated excel formulae and is incredibly good at anything mathematical plus having very good comprehension skills. I think he’s perversely proud of not engaging with mobiles, he uses them but can’t remember how to change from WiFi to 4G if WiFi is playing up, how to mute a WhatsApp chat or turn off any notifications. It drives me insane as he just moans about being disturbed by constant beeps. I show him how to do it but next time he still doesn’t/won’t remember. He doesn’t ask for help just mutters darkly. We’re both in our 50s but have used tech stuff at work for donkeys years.
Thank God it’s not just mine who is utterly useless. I keep explaining things and then he just forgets. This despite the fact he can remember complex sequences and do mental addition of large numbers very quickly.
StillWeRise · 22/04/2021 09:39

Hi OP wow, 26 pages you really touched a nerve. I'm sorry you have been given a hard time it's clear to me you and your DH are acting sensitively and with a view to build independence.
My thoughts are- I know someone about this age who for various reasons was not in regular employment over the last 30 odd years. She has therefore missed the boat wrt to IT and has found work arounds that, to her, seem perfectly convenient. I'm puzzed as to why as a teacher your MIL also missed this boat but perhaps as a food tech teacher, or as a supply, she was able to muddle through especially as you say she was so well regarded.
WRT to the division of labour. I bet you MIL is highly skilled in many areas that your FIL never attempted. Domestic skills are often invisible and only get noticed in their absence. Also (not saying this is true of you) often undervalued. What you see as 'life admin' that she can't do- budgeting, cooking, preserving, working with textiles, generally overseeing a household efficiently- these are also life admin and actually more crucial day to day if you lack these skills.
My own DM has been widowed for many years now and was of the school where women managed most household finances and men earnt money and fixed things. With encouragent she has recently developed her IT skills. I think they key is to show her how it works well for something she really wants to do- like video call DGCs or send a photo of her garden to someone. But that takes time and no one is going to learn well when newly bereaved.

Best of luck!

user1497207191 · 22/04/2021 10:18

@JackieLavertysWeirdVoice

I thought the OP said her MiL was a secondary school teacher up till 2010-11?

The pp was making the point that computer tech was widespread in schools from the 1990s.

So MiL had 15 years to learn it. I was in Higher Ed and it was forced on us via compulsory training, specialist groups, performance reviews and - bottom line - inspections.

There was, truly, no escape. And I'm glad of it.

There's got to be (have been) something else going on.

But "some" teachers got away without engaging with IT. My son had an English teacher as recent as 3/4 years ago who hadn't a clue about IT. He never answered emails, he never put anything on ShowMyHomework. He obviously wasn't interested as he was close to retirement age (and did in fact retire midway through my son's GCSE years!). So, yes, it is quite possible that other teachers have also managed to avoid IT and are now IT-illiterate in retirement.
HilaryThorpe · 22/04/2021 18:52

It was actually the mid 80s when computers were introduced into schools. I was an IT advisory teacher from 1988. The first cohort of advisory teachers from 1986 were doing mostly basic tecchie stuff, but a huge number of us were appointed in '88 to develop IT in all phases and subject specialisms with a lot of government money behind us. What was remarkable was that enthusiasm and interest had nothing to do with age. I ran courses with young teachers who didn't want to touch a keyboard and teachers at retirement age who loved it and wanted to start their career again to make the most of it.
There were people who tried to avoid it, but not on my watch. 😂

LovingBob · 22/04/2021 20:36

I can remember using computers at work properly in the mid to late 80s when Excel first came into use, before that it was some tape with holes in it, a blurry green screen, called DOS I think and punch cards which went over to a big computer room.

user1497207191 · 23/04/2021 09:42

@LovingBob

I can remember using computers at work properly in the mid to late 80s when Excel first came into use, before that it was some tape with holes in it, a blurry green screen, called DOS I think and punch cards which went over to a big computer room.
Our school got their first computer around 1979 and by 1983 there was a classroom full of them and the general office were using them. I think they've been around longer than people think!
DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy · 23/04/2021 19:23

My DF did all the life admin, and we all thought my DM (also a teacher) was a bit useless at that kind of thing. But when she was widowed in her 80s, she just took everything over and is very competent and organised. My DH does quite a bit of the admin, and I would be a bit stressed if I had to take it over, but I did it when I was single and could do so again. I think it makes sense to have "girl" and "boy" jobs (a la Theresa May Confused) but it doesn't mean the girl can't do the boy jobs if needed.

ancientgran · 24/04/2021 14:06

@HilaryThorpe

It was actually the mid 80s when computers were introduced into schools. I was an IT advisory teacher from 1988. The first cohort of advisory teachers from 1986 were doing mostly basic tecchie stuff, but a huge number of us were appointed in '88 to develop IT in all phases and subject specialisms with a lot of government money behind us. What was remarkable was that enthusiasm and interest had nothing to do with age. I ran courses with young teachers who didn't want to touch a keyboard and teachers at retirement age who loved it and wanted to start their career again to make the most of it. There were people who tried to avoid it, but not on my watch. 😂
We chose a secondary school for my son in 1981 because it had such a good reputation in teaching and using IT.
GameofPhones · 24/04/2021 14:27

Impatience with mobile phones can be due to the brand/model. Some smartphones are more difficult to use than others, are slow to load, have apps that overwhelm other apps (Google pops up unbidden on my phone and stops everything else working). I've stopped using mine except for its camera and alarm button, and bought a much simpler ordinary mobile for texting.

HilaryThorpe · 25/04/2021 06:23

@ancientgran Yes there were computers in some secondary schools earlier, Commodore Pet and the like.
I am talking about the roll-out from the mid 80s across all phases of state schools, secondary, primary and special. These were mostly BBC computers. The Education Support Grant funded a massive training programme in all subjects. This is when teachers who were not IT specialists started to be trained.
I was an IT advisory teacher for ten years and then an ICT inspector in LAs (and Ofsted).

HarebrightCedarmoon · 25/04/2021 06:38

My DM did everything and is very organised at 81, it would have been much harder on that level if she had passed away first. Definitely down to individual attitudes and habits.

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